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This is chilling, sick and very problematic...
I was about to do a few things but then I saw a story on CNN and I turned my computer on strictly to share and vent about this. They played the audio of Baptist Pastor from Tempe, Arizona, praying for Obama's death. My gut sank listening to it and I felt sick. When will the madness end? I hope he enjoys his tax exempt status and how he's not being arrested by the Secret Service...
Quick article I found doing a google search. Couldn't find it yet on CNN.com.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2009/08/tempe_pastor_steven_anderson_p.php
The audio is even more chilling. I can't find it. If someone doesn't find it first, i'll post it later.
I heard some of this on Thom Hartmann. Someone did some searching on one of Obama's Healthcare Reform Town Halls that had a picture of a guy with one of the semi-automatics and it turns out (according to Thom) that the guy was in this pastor's church and had listened to that sermon. This sermon was given either the night before or shortly before Obama arrived at that town hall.
I guess it would be on Thom's transcript of the show?
Here's the embeded clip of the link you posted.
<sarcasm> How Christian of him... </sarcasm>
I don't know anyhing about how the Baptist Church works, but shouldn't this clown get kicked out?
Brandon is an active Baptist, so perhaps he can explain this better. It is my, limited, understanding that each Baptist Church is locally oriented and the Pastor is always chosen by the Elders/Congregation. Unless, the Congregation chooses to remove the Pastor, I don't know that the Southern Baptist Convention can do anything to chasten him for this blatant Sin.
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Lewis Black says: "A Republican will stand up in Congress and say, "I've got a really bad idea." And a Democrat will immediately jump to his feet and declare, "And I can make it sh*ttier.""
But you're right, Brandon would be more familiar with SBC hierarchy.
----It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.
Lewis Black
This particular church is not part of the SBC or any other Baptist denomination like the American Baptist or National Baptist convention. They are 100% independent.
There is no trademark on the word Baptist. I could open up a church tomorrow and call it Baptist and start preaching that Blakey is the true risen Christ and there is absolutely nobody that could stop me from calling it a Baptist church.
The SBC does expel churches from their denomination and I know of at least 3 here in town that are no longer part of the convention. But again, these churches can still say they are Baptist.
While I agree, Hope, it would be very difficult.
As Brandon mentioned, there are dozens and dozens of sub-denominational organizations that use the Baptist title. The three largest and most well known are the Southern Baptist Convention, the National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc., and the American Baptist Churches USA.
Even if all those sub-denominations could agree on the details, there are literally hundreds of independent Baptist churches of all stripes. The church that I was baptized in, while in college, was an independent Baptist church, though nothing like the bizarre churches mentioned above.
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Lewis Black says: "A Republican will stand up in Congress and say, "I've got a really bad idea." And a Democrat will immediately jump to his feet and declare, "And I can make it sh*ttier.""
Our family attended a "Baptist" church for awhile - I should have known something was up when about 2 weeks into it the pastor said to me "You will NEVER stay here, you are too smart." Turned out all they were about was creating zombie slaves to do their bidding. Pastor and his wife would emotionally break down people to get them completely subservient then get them to give everything they had (money, time, property) to the Pastor's family. Complaints to the area powers that be eventually led to the church going independent but still keeping the Baptist name.
Religion - ya gotta love it.
- formerly klaf
There are a couple of non-denominational churches here that also use the word Baptist in their name, and are not part of the Baptist denomination. I kinda assume it is to play on the word "baptize", but I could be wrong.
I went to the website of this church, and they are truly an independent, hardcore fundamentalist group. The pastor has no college degree, thinks male OB-GYNs are perverted and sinful, thinks vaccinations are an abomination, thinks contemporary Christian music is sinful, etc etc etc. I didn't dig deep enough to find the snake handling...I was about to barf. lol
I don't profess to know a lot about the Baptist religion as an organization, except that it is quite mainstream, and I knew right off the bat that this guy couldn't be one!!
thinks contemporary Christian music is sinful
well don't know about sinful but it's very irritating - singing the same phrase over and over
Anyone remember the South Park Episode? "oooh Jesus I love you, I want to walk on the beach with you and hold hands .... " lol
- formerly klaf
well don't know about sinful but it's very irritating - singing the same phrase over and over
You know, Mary. I find this comment to be very insulting and hateful to myself and other fans of Contemporary Christian Music. I'd appreciate an apology.
It's not like I go around insulting the secular music that you listen to. Which, by the way, also repeats the same lyrics over and over.
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...Well, for one thing it's easier. When you tell the truth you never have to remember later what you lied about. - Lwaxana Troi - Star Trek: The Next Generation 5x20 - "Cost of Living"
I don't think she meant to offend anyone. Probably wouldn't have typed it if she knew anyone would look at it as anything other than a joke or a ribbing....
I agree with, SG. I think in this case, "lighten up" would be some good advice. Sheesh. We could all say something about each and every different kind of music. MaryMoo was clearly trying to make a joke.
Sometimes you just have to read someone's post and assume they are making a joke and move on. I don't expect everyone to like every single thing I like, and I certainly don't get my feelings hurt if people make fun of the things I like. I like 70s disco music. I'm not gonna be torn up about it if someone else makes jokes about it. It doesn't help to be such a delicate flower and take everything as an insult.
I think in this case, "lighten up" would be some good advice.
It doesn't help to be such a delicate flower and take everything as an insult.
Wow. How Rude of you!
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...Well, for one thing it's easier. When you tell the truth you never have to remember later what you lied about. - Lwaxana Troi - Star Trek: The Next Generation 5x20 - "Cost of Living"
Taste in music is 100% subjective, so I wouldn't feel insulted by someone making fun of a genre of music. Usually when someone criticizes a complete genre of music, they are just uneducated in that particular style.
There are certain artists within any genre that are influential or innovative enough that one should respect their body of work even if they don't like them. For instance, if you don't appreciate Elvis Presley then you have no understanding of popular music from the late 1950s to the early 1970s. I'm not saying you have to necessarily like Elvis, but if you made the statement his music is not any good, you would be wrong.
But there is no bad taste or good taste in music.
You'll never, ever hear me say I don't like Elvis and his music!! ;-)
And you right...there is no good taste or bad taste in music...to each his/her own.
Perhaps this was an overreaction on my part. I can't fully be sure. I do have vaild reasons for my reaction, though.
It often seems that CCM is my last connection to the Evangelical Christian community that I was so active in for over seven years. After I was forced out of my church, and promptly shunned by all of my Church & Bible Study friends, everything that was traditionally Christian became a painful experience and it made me so very sad. It was only by listening to CCM, regularly, that I found some connection to my old Christian life. Even more importantly, CCM is the only thing that kept me mentally stable and prevented me from committing suicide on those several dozen dark occasions when I was really hurting. So, I find that, to joke about, or insult the only thing that brings me any real joy from one day to the next is very rude.
Many of you may not be able to understand what I've been through, or why this upsets me so much and I accept that. I, also, hope that you never have to deal with the trials that I've had to.
*Edited to correct spelling and grammar errors.*
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...Well, for one thing it's easier. When you tell the truth you never have to remember later what you lied about. - Lwaxana Troi - Star Trek: The Next Generation 5x20 - "Cost of Living"
I appreciate your issues, but you do need to understand that not everyone on the internet knows of your personal commitments to a particular thing. We all have them and can't expect everyone else to know of them and keep them sacred like we do. To have expected MaryMoo to know of your own personal feelings is impossible. You need to remember that there are probably many things that you would joke about that others here are deadly serious about.
And some of us are very different than you are. I find it best to joke about most things in all situations. It is humor that gets me through the worst times. I keep laughing to keep from crying. I am the queen of gallows humor in my own life. And I am the best at making fun of myself.
In summation, I'm just saying that your request for consideration for your feelings needs to be tempered with consideration for the feelings for others. MaryMoo simply made a joke and got called hateful for doing so. The internet has millions and billions and frillions of people on it. They can't all inherently know of our personal feelings, and it is best to be prepared for that.
Friends?
The internet has millions and billions and frillions of people on it. They can't all inherently know of our personal feelings, and it is best to be prepared for that.
Friends?
Oh, Yes!
You are correct, but RFO is a very small community of individuals. Less than 30 regular posters make up this network. Like most small to mid-sized forums there is a sense of family that develops. Plus, I've been posting here for over one year and I've never hidden the details about my faith, my struggles with clinical depression, and how my mental illness led to my expulsion from that community of faith. All of that culminated in my seeking out RFO for the first time. I hope that gives some more insight as to why I was so upset.
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...Well, for one thing it's easier. When you tell the truth you never have to remember later what you lied about. - Lwaxana Troi - Star Trek: The Next Generation 5x20 - "Cost of Living"
I'm sorry Chance about your personal struggles in the past. I can't imagine reaching the point where suicide is considered an option, although I've known a couple of people who went that far and it is just very alien to me how someone could get to that point. I'm so glad you overcame that trial.
I'm sure Mary was just trying to be funny and didn't mean to be insulting. She's never struck me as the type who would intentionally insult someone here.
Just in the last few days because I have a different opinion, I've been told that my reading comprehension is poor and that even someone with half a brain wouldn't agree with my position. It hurts and makes one mad at first to read an insult like that, but you have to remember that people on an online discussion group don't really know you outside of the board, so you just have to let it roll and be glad you don't know them outside the board.
I can't imagine reaching the point where suicide is considered an option, although I've known a couple of people who went that far and it is just very alien to me how someone could get to that point.
Mental illness isn't fun, Brandon. ;-))
I don't understand why some people go through that and some don't, but I'm glad that you haven't had to face those trials, though I'm sure you had some other trial during your life that was just as difficult for you.
I'm so glad you overcame that trial.
It's really never over and will be a day-by-day thing for, probably, a long time.
Just in the last few days because I have a different opinion, I've been told that my reading comprehension is poor and that even someone with half a brain wouldn't agree with my position.
Oh Goodness. Did I say that? I don't remember doing that, but I'm so sorry. My Deepest Apologies. I may not always agree with all of your positions, but you are my Brother In Christ and I regret hurting you.
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...Well, for one thing it's easier. When you tell the truth you never have to remember later what you lied about. - Lwaxana Troi - Star Trek: The Next Generation 5x20 - "Cost of Living"
No Chance, you didn't say those things, nor have you ever said anything close to being insulting to me. I was referring to recent comments directed toward me by TheCharp and wcolin that I found to be uncalled for.
To poke fun at country, rap, heavy metal etc, is to joke about a music genre only.
I'm not completely sure about that, Suzi. For example, I'm not really a big fan of The Beatles/John Lennon/Paul McCartney. However, I wouldn't tell a fan of that music that it was irritating, or put down the entire genre when I know that there are people who have such passion for it. I've learned to appreciate the good that they have found in it. I search for the best way to maintain the community, so to speak.
Now, Rap/Hip-Hop ... ;-))
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...Well, for one thing it's easier. When you tell the truth you never have to remember later what you lied about. - Lwaxana Troi - Star Trek: The Next Generation 5x20 - "Cost of Living"
Now, Rap/Hip-Hop ... ;-))
I'd appreciate an apology as well!
I grew up Primitive Baptist and truth be told...no 2 Baptist churches are ever alike.
Apology offered, Suthngal. I had hoped that the winking man [ ;-)) ] would indicate that I was ending the comment with a intentional joke about the situation. So, yes, it was tasteless and it was just the kind of joke that I was complaining about earlier and I'm sorry that I offended you with it and didn't make the joke clearer.
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...Well, for one thing it's easier. When you tell the truth you never have to remember later what you lied about. - Lwaxana Troi - Star Trek: The Next Generation 5x20 - "Cost of Living"
I think everyone entirely missed my point, but that's ok. The funny thing is, it is often the ones who want to be accepted as they are, can be the very ones not willing to give the same to others, by telling them how wrong they are. ;-)
Irony rules the day!
I was being over the top about the style of music is irritating to me. I didn't personally criticize anyone who likes that genre of music nor would I make any kind of generalizations about who enjoys it. Of course I was over generalizing about the same lyrics being sung over and over. But my only experience with this music is what I have heard in a family members church would is not unlike the pastor in question here - infusing politics and questionable logic. Of course ALL CCM is not like what I described. But the only style of CCM I am familiar with is the kind where it is literally the same words repeated over and over and shown on an overhead projector rather than a hymn book.
I was just going to let this go and not respond but I didn't want any misunderstandings about the origin of my post ESPECIALLY AS I HAVE NEVER, EVER MADE MENTION OF PEOPLE'S PERSONAL FAITH in any of my posts. My only criticism ever has been restricted politics in religion. I am not sure how that translates into a lack of tolerance for one's faith.
So this was me merely poking fun at the CCM that I am familiar with,not attacking anyone's personal faith. I would have never have posted it if I truly thought someone would think it is a personal attack on them or their faith. To me it just seemed like a matter of preference for the style of Christian music.
My apologies for any offense as I truly didn't intend insult anyone's faith. I will take this as a lesson to not chime in on such matters as what may seem innocuous to me as they may not be to others.
Suzi - don't know if this post was directed at me in particular or just a statement in general but just wanted to 'clear the air.'
Many of you may not be able to understand what I've been through, or why this upsets me so much and I accept that. I, also, hope that you never have to deal with the trials that I've had to.
I've been through something similar-- I don't think the circumstances were the same, as I was on a self-imposed exile rather than a, uh, "excommunication" (for lack of a better word).
I'm truly saddened that the community that could have embraced you in Christ's love has instead chosen to treat you in such a way. In a similar way, I found some solace in Christian rock artists like Switchfoot and Jars of Clay (well, their early albums, anyway) during my self-exile, until I was pulled back in.
It's a dark, deep abyss ("valley of the shadow of death", indeed) that I don't think any Christian should tread willingly, unless they want to minister to those who are thus afflicted and in so doing share common ground.
----It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.
Lewis Black
I agree Hope.
Obviously, the worst example is that independent church in Topeka called Westboro Baptist Church. Their website is actually www.godhatesfags.com and they are some of the most hate filled, vile people on the planet.