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Texas Education Strikes Again...
I am actually not completely opposed to the idea of teaching of religious philosophy in public schools. However, this is a far cry from philosophy or even diversity, this appears to be stricky about the bible's influence on society and government. It does say other religions are welcome to be taught but it strikes me as a cliff note in fine print to make it appear to be something other than it is, which is clearly an attempt to get biblical study in the public school. I think that a class at some point in the educational life of a student that would teach the belief system of all major religions would be a wonderful thing. I think it would do a lot to help unwind all the fears and confusion about what others do actaully believe. I think it would go along way in creating comfort and familiarity with the diverse society in which we live. I would love for my neices and nephews to have been exposed to the idea of other religions. President Obama said, his mother took him to all kinds of different religious/spritiual services.
I am always disappointed in how we don't seem to be able to give everyone an equal voice in matters of religion and thus why seperation is so necessary.
Years ago, during my last year of high school, I took a class at a local Catholic college that taught the "Old Testament." The twist? It was taught by a Rabbi. I was intrigued that a Catholic institution would bring in a Rabbi to teach the "Old Testament."
My only regret is that it's not mandatory for all christians to learn the "Old Testament" from a Rabbi.
The early 1970s was a very ecumenical time. You are probably right that differences in opinion on Roe V Wade and other social issues likely was the reason that this era didn't continue.
In my denomination (Southern Baptist), there was a big takeover by the most conservative elements of the convention in 1979 and that has continued to this day. While I agree that the conservatives had some good points, even as a kid, I saw minor things that suddenly changed.
I went to a Baptist school that was in a church and in the 1970s we decorated the church and school for Halloween and had a haunted house every year that was a fundraiser for a local charity. After 1980, Halloween was banned.
In the 1970s, we had school dances. The pastor was even the dj one year and played the current top 40. After 1980, dances were banned from the school and we were not allowed to have a prom the year I graduated.
In the 1970s, when we took the youth trips to Florida there were no rules concerning swimsuits and girls actually wore bikinis. But starting in 1981, both boys and girls had to wear colored t-shirts over their swimsuits.
I guess everybody got kind of "loose" in the 1970s even Southern Baptists.
Heh -- did the Southern Baptists suddenly start channeling the Puritans?
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams
That really saddens me Brandon. My family attended a very legalistic church in my formative years and I recall the same types of indoctrination. I am sad to hear you missed your prom. I remember acually being taught about how halloween was a satanic event. Acually it is wicken. I remember going to christian camp and not only did the bathing suits have to be one pieces for the girls but our shorts had to be as long as our fingertips with our arms at our side. I remember that we were not allowed to show any signs of affection for the opposite sex, even hand holding was not allowed.
I am very curious what your feelings are about that now?
I was lucky that while my parents were very Christian and we went to church and Sunday school every week and my dad was and still is a deacon, they were not the least bit legalistic.
We always went all out on Halloween and my sister has continued that tradition with her children. Halloween was always my favorite holiday after maybe Christmas and Thanksgiving.
My parents also saw nothing wrong with dancing or rock music or movies or any of that and gave me total freedom in that area unlike a lot of my classmates. I will say that a lot of my friends from high school were and are still traumatized by going through that sort of school. Unfortunately, it really turned many of them away from religion.
As far as girl's clothes are concerned, there has to be a happy medium between basic Christian modesty and bizarre "Taliban" like rules. I'm sure this is even more of a problem today with current teenage girl fashion and dances that are far more suggestive than when I was in school.
Unfortunately, it really turned many of them away from religion.
This is what legalism does and why I despise it's presence in modern Christianity. It is completely absent from the joy found in true Christianity. So many lost opportunities and people who could bring much to the church are chased away. I'm glad that your parents didn't fall into that trap.
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Lewis Black says: "A Republican will stand up in Congress and say, "I've got a really bad idea." And a Democrat will immediately jump to his feet and declare, "And I can make it sh*ttier.""
Brandon said: ". . . there has to be a happy medium between basic Christian modesty and bizarre "Taliban" like rules."
Switch that statement to ". . . there has to be a happy medium between basic human modesty and bizarre "Taliban" like rules."
and we can see eye-to-eye.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it is a little irksome for christians to claim morals, modesty and values as though non-christians, and even non-theists, don't have a stake and equally high standards in all three as well.
Suzi is right, I was strictly talking about what the rules should be for dress at a Christian school, camp or youth trip. I was by no means trying to imply that people of different faiths (or no faith) could not also believe in modesty or decent clothing.
I was saying that while I think that teenagers need guidance in that area while in a Christian setting, perhaps there could be some more common sense rules than something as radical as requiring everyone having to wear a colored shirt over their swimsuit in the pool.
Possibly. But it's such a mantra and it's practically non-stop. I'm just asking people to stop for a minute and consider that there is not monopoly on high standards for morality, values, ethics, etc.
For the most part I was agreeing with Brandon's post, just making the point for inclusion over exclusion, then everyone can feel we're on the same page.
Thanks for sharing, Brandon. You can count me as one of those that were traumatized by the whole experience. It took me until my mid twenties to reconsider the idea of God at all. My name being.. Elizabeth means, consecrated to God and I actually love that that is what my name means. It took me a long time to feel that. It upset me deeply for a long time how the "church" made me fear God as a child, instead of feel Loved by him. How the rules and seperation from non-christians that they so encouraged, isolated us from the rest of the world. I guess I had to find my own way back to God, and so I did.
TC that is great! I remember seeing a duo of a priest and a rabbi on tv...they called themselves the God Squad...they were great.
Did you ever see Lewis Black's take on how the Christains are always misinterpreting up "his" book?! He's Jewish of course. It's hysterical!
Yup.
One of the very first things christians would do well to learn is that the account of "creation" in Genesis is a poem.
It was written as a poem, and was never intended as anything else BUT a poem.
As such it is simply an extended allegory, and not, repeat not, the literal "recipe" for creation.
If they can't get the very first thing right and understood properly, how can they even attempt to deal with everything else that comes after it? (By the way, that "question" is rhetorical, no attempt at an answer is either required or expected.)
(By the way, that "question" is rhetorical, no attempt at an answer is either required or expected.)
Haha!!! I can almost read your mind.........
The Old Testament is a combination of poem and prose, but with more poetry than we generally realize. Read this for interesting insight.
No, it was not the Rabbi's "interpretation." It is written in prose. It's common knowledge to the Jewish people, as common as we know what a limerick is when we hear one.
If I can dig out my old notes, I can give you some examples.
Though I can't speak for TC's assertion that the first chapter in Genesis is strictly meant as poetry, I am aware of the fact that most modern translations lack a great amount of the semantic nuance found in the original Hebrew text.
It seems to be a trend of sorts to use translations as an opportunity to explain the bible rather than to create a representation of it in another language. This means that modern translators sacrifice a lot of imagery, metaphor, poetic expressions, and even out-and-out puns all for the sake of an accessible and transparent interpretation.
I'd strongly (and I mean STRONGLY) reccomend Robert Alter's translation of Genesis for anyone who wants an understandable translation that preserves the multiple meanings, as well as a good deal of the beautiful rhytms present in the first book of the bible. It really drives home the degree to which the bible is a work of art.
Well, to be accurate, it's not my assertion, it's the assertion of the Jewish scholars themselves, going all the way back to Moses Maimonides and further.
I haven't located my notes yet, but this passage by Rabbi Scheinerman on his home page basically explains it:
"There is no conflict between Jewish cosmogony and modern science. Jews are deeply involved in the intellectual pursuits of modern physics, and do not promote the ideas of “Creationism” which we find intellectually shallow, narrow, and based on fundamental misunderstandings of the biblical text. Hebrew Scripture does not purport to be a scientific textbook about how the world came to be; it is a work of religious art concerning why the world came to be. Modern people would do well to learn to read the book on its own terms, particularly those who hold it to be the literal word of God."
http://scheinerman.net/judaism/
Ah, I see what you mean now, and I agree 100%.
This looks great! I will get it, ty