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The Newt & Huckabee (and North) Show: NOT the way to get our party back!


By TheCharp - Posted on 06 June 2009

Wow. Whipping up the Evangelical Right again, with hyperbole, hypocrisy, and fire & brimstone!

These guys -- wow. As the party gets smaller and smaller, this is not really the way to get it back, is it?!

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/06/huckabee-gingrich-urge-political-engagement-va-beach

Excerpts:

Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich and former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee urged Christians to get involved in politics to preserve the presence of religion in American life.

"I think this is one of the most critical moments in American history," Gingrich said. "We are living in a period where we are surrounded by paganism."

They and other speakers warned about the continuing availability of abortion, the spread of gay rights, and attempts to remove religion from American public life and school history books.

. . . 

"The notion that we are just one of many among equals is nonsense," Huckabee said. The United States is a "blessed" nation, he said, calling American revolutionaries' defeat of the British empire "a miracle from God's hand."

 

And then later on they begged, I mean, urged the God.TV viewers to get "engaged" in public life or their "views won't matter."

How absurd. There are plenty of very religious and very spiritual people in leadership positions all over this country. To imply that we are rife with pagans (actually, they didn't imply, they outright said it), is absurd.

I regret to inform these guys, but this is not much different from trying to push for a theocracy.

 

 

 

Being scared of pagans is foolishness. I know quite a few and they don't scare me particularly.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams

Well, not to mention the fact (but then I mention it anyway, go figure) that the majority of their "christian" activities have pagan roots, everything from the "bride" (Goddess of fertility:  Brighit or Brighid) to Christmas (evergreen = King Nebukanezzer, ya'll) and so many many in between.

But all that's beside the point.

 

 

And the dates of most of our Christian holidays were set to coincide with pagan festivals.  This was a good way to get recent or almost converts involved, in ways they were familiar with....which was actually a good idea, but let's not forget our history here folks! ;-)

What irks me about this hoopla is that they are implying that somehow in some way, there are "others" out there trying to RIP their religion away from them!

"Someone" is trying to engage in some war on religion and take away their voices and their right to live their "christian" lives.

They are starting the drumbeats for a bogus "war on faith" that simply doesn't exist.

This is, yet again, the Rove Playbook. It worked before, I guess they figure it will work again.

And, to be honest, it just might. 

These people (the God.TV viewers) are so gullible. They really and truly buy all that bogus cr*p hook, line and sinker.

Huckabee started his case for the Miracle of the Revolution because of this:

Huckabee told the audience he was disturbed to hear President Barack Obama say during his speech in Cairo, Egypt, on Thursday that one nation shouldn't be exalted over another

I think you got some of your facts mixed up with something else.

Nebuchadnezzar is in the Bible. I don't think that he has anything to do with evergreens.

And your "bride" reference is lost on me as well.

There are lots of other pagan things which have been adopted by Christianity, however. 

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams

No, he has everything to do with Christmas...and evergreens.

 

And the Goddess Bridget was who "bride" was named after. The name evolved over time, but she was to be dressed a specific way during the cleaving with the 'groom' so that fertility could be guaranteed. The (the young couple) also consumed mass quantities of "honey" during that period, usually around May and June, because honey was thought to be an aphrodisiac, which would also increase the odds of fertile doings. (The Honeymoon.)

 

As far as King Nebbie, I love this story because of the fact he WAS a figure from the Bible!

He put himself forward to his people in Babylon not only as a King, but as a God, too.

The bummer was, yup, you guessed it, one day he DIED! GASP! Gods don't DIE, do they!?

So his mum, not to freak out the people and to continue the myth of his "god" status, sent some of his trusted aids to the lands in the north to bring back an evergreen tree. When they brought it back, good mum that she was, had it planted near his burial.

Well, when the people saw this evergreen tree growing they knew it was their good King/God Nebbie!

They brought him gifts and jewels and adorned the tree with it. This is one of the reasons why we DECORATE Christmas trees!

 

I've never heard that story about Nebuchadnezzar and a quick Google doesn't find any reference to it either.

But whatever. Believe whatever the heck you want to. 

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams

Hey...the pagans have their stories just like we do.  lol

Thank you TS, for we all know that if it's not in The Google, it just ain't true, right?

 The fact of the matter is I learned that several decades ago in a class at a Catholic private college taught by a Jewish Rabbi on the Old Testament.

I will most certianly believe it, as will all the other students who have taken the Rabbi's class over the years.

Darn him. Silly Rabbi. I should tell him about The Google. . .

At least I'm relieved that I do have your permission to continue to believe him.

Why do I have this insane urge to say..."Trix are for kids"? ;-)
I have the insane urge to find a shrubbery with little more than the word "Ni!"
----

It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

My apologies. I was tired and grumpy and shouldn't have been trying to have online discussions in that mood. 

I still doubt the veracity of your sources, because they are a lot different from the ones I've read about, but different strokes for different folks. 

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams

Kick out the Christmas Trees, the Stars, the Lights, the Candles, the candy, the Easter egg hunts, the Easter Bunny, the Jack-o-lantern, dressing up for halloween, giving out Valentines day cards, birthday cakes,....I can go on but I think you get the point.

 Though we have the same holidays and we may have had the holiday first (in most cases we didn't), all of these things above are Pagan in origin.

And if anything not Christian is pagan, but they bless God, ...what about Jews, Muslims, Buddist, etc?  They believe in one God too <_<.

I was just reading this, and came back here to post it. Unreal!

 Newt and his cohorts still subscribe to the radical right concept of leading a theocratic or similarly absolute hierarchical form of government, which is precisely what this country was founded against.  (And I say this as a strong Christian!) This revisionist history is such a distortion, repeated over and over again with absolute certainty.  I simply cannot go down this road again.....

And who better than Newt to lead a charge against all the sinners of the US...

There are plenty of happy, moral people who aren't religious. Will they ever learn that this BS won't win over the middle?

Actually, I think they know it won't win over the middle to a degree. They are really just trying to rile up the base with fear and misinformation...
Before too much longer, if things don't change, the base will be all they have left. 
And there are many happy, moral, religious people who don't buy into this BS!!! 
I know, my point, which you know but i'll clarify for others is, there are a great deal of people outside their bubble of Christianity who are good citizens, good Americans, and are respectful of others. People of Christianity, other religions and people of little religion. It's frustrating when the try to villainize people who don't go with their way of thinking. It's playing the fear card like Liberals and democrats will be the end of us. (Of course in this current climate of the GOP: Moderate = liberal/democrat = wrong/evil/ and out to destroy America....

I know...and I was just being a smart a$$ for fun. ;-)

But my point was that they need to realize that the majority of Christians, or people of any faith, don't buy into that zealot crap.  

To reduce your equation to it's simplest form..

Not Radical Religious Right = The Dangerous Enemy

( :

Did TC hack your account?

 

LMAO!!!  Point taken....
Hey!!!
lol

SHN970,

Thank you!  He is the worst hypocrite that could be thrust up there as a cheerleader for this effort.  Unless he can argue that as a sinner of major renown and that he knows the hearts and ugliness of liberal sinners, so therefore he can be the leader of this moral restoration of the GOP.  Why can't you Republicans just expose him for the hypocritical monster he is and just face the fact that Cheney and him are on the same mission?  They are cynical enough to use the sincere concerns of Christian conservatives everywhere and with the help of FOX and others, most of them are warned to not listen to any other sources of news or information.  This is the real crux people.  They have been told that anyone other than FOX, Limbaugh and Lou Dobbins and their ilk are Satan's helpers.  Even I am considered a bad influence to a friend's teenage children.  Maybe she is a former friend, but, you know ........ And Barack Obama is the Anti-Christ.

 Please, I urge you to expose this man for who he really is and then the GOP can begin to rebuild on the basis of true integrity.

MaggieCat

We're trying, Maggie...we're really trying!!
Trust me, the victim mentality and the fearmongering of the Religious Right will not be lost on the progressive 'net.

And to demonstrate my point, a comment from this Digg thread on the topic: "Don't you guys see? Newt is trying to SAVE the gays from marriage. After all, he has had three, he's the expert on this kind of stuff." Something tells me this guy listens to Car Talk.

----

It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

From this link:

GINGRICH: I am not a citizen of the world. I am a citizen of the United States because only in the United States does citizenship start with our creator. [...] I think this is one of the most critical moments in American history. We are living in a period where we are surrounded by paganism.

What is with  these zealots?

Here is a link to Christian Founder Myth

That's another thing i'm sick of, here comes a vent:

 I love America, all of us here do, so many others do, BUT I am tired of the arrogance of some to say and act like we are the best country in the world hands down and God is on our side all the time. We are a great country but we have no right to be so condescending to the rest of the world or go against the the very religion they claim to follow to proclaim they know God's intentions and feelings about America. Another reason we are hated in the world. If we are hated more it only makes more problems for our standing in the world on issues we get involved in....

Here's something interesting i'm wondering, are there a collection of quotes from government officials of other countries saying their nation is the best in the world?  I'm sure there are just wondering who said it and how often.

And you know what gets me SG? The fact that Jesus, the central focus on Christianity, was born and taught across the ocean. Why should America have exclusive rights to him. Jesus loved all people, not just Republicans.    
or Christians for that matter.

Kudos on your vent, Steven.  I agree totally.  Of course we think we are the best country in the world.  It's our country and we love it.  Citizens of many other countries feel the exact same way about their country...and well they should!  It's their country and we love it.

We (America) cannot constantly tell other nations how wrong they are for their way of life, their system of government, their religion etc and expect them to be our friends.  It goes against everything that is human nature. 

Did you ever read the book "Everything I Ever Needed to Know About Life, I Learned in Kindergarten"?  It's not political, but it sums up how the basic things we learn when we are young..to share, play nice with others, etc...can be applied to life.  It applies here as well.

I read it and his others, I think I have all of them. I think I read them about 15 years ago. They were great books.
When I wrote that, somehow I know that you had read them. ;-)  I agree, they were great..filled with a very simple wisdom.

LOL, the kindergarten thing is so true it seems. You're right and you see what i'm saying. We love our country, we think it's the best and if we weren't so involved with issues of other nations it wouldn't be a problem on an international scale. We can't sit back and act like we are better or that goodness justice, and God are always on our side and expect other nations to have respect for us or our intentions. Imagine this: Someone outside the U.S. says to you thet their country is better than yours and they expect you to still respect them and their nation after that. Ask a neocon how they would feel and what their reaction would be. Ask them how their emotions are after that same person also told them God was in favor of their county's best interests.

I see exactly what you mean, and have long thought the same thing.  To be perfectly honest, the "God is on our side" sound much like the Muslim nations' rhetoric, of which we are highly critical.  It sounds like a sick game of "my God is better than your God".

I always liked Lincoln's response to a question as to whether or not God was on his side.  His response (paraphrased)

I would pray that I am on God's side rather than God is on my side.

... We are the only country that tells the rest of the world on a nearly-constant basis that we're the greatest country on Earth. And that... is a little f***ing obnoxious. And I know it's obnoxious, because if you were in an office and there was someone who came in every day who said, "I'M THE GREATEST F***ER HERE!! AND YOU SNIVELING S**TS WOULD DIE WITHOUT ME! AHAHAHAHA!!"-- by the end of the week you'd have killed him. And eaten him... just to possess his power.
----

It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

Let's see... Where in history have we had theocracies?  16th-17th century France, Spain under the Inquisition, Iran and Saudi Arabia currently, the list goes on.  To this we can add the theocracies-in-everything-but-name such as Stalinist USSR, Nazi Germany, Japan from 1931-1945.

Now, where does anyone see these regimes as desirable?  Church and state are extremely dysfunctional bedfellows.  Our founding fathers knew this and explicitly addressed it in the First Amendment.

For Newt and Mike H. to argue that we are first and foremost a "Christian" country goes against history and the Constitution.  It is in fact an un-American, even anti-American, argument.

Yes, we are historically Christian, but we are also supposed to be tolerant of all faiths and even lack thereof.  We have more Jews than Israel, more Muslims than most Muslim nations, and a higher level of religious practice than most countries world wide.  Our religions are vibrant precisely because there is freedom to practice them as we see fit (within obvious limits.)  In countries where there is less historical freedom of this nature (see England, France, Germany for example) church attendance and religious practice are much lower.

No, Newt.  If we are living in a period of paganism, we have done so for some 230 years, and we have weathered it pretty well.

DB : don't forget tsarist Russia.  Under the Tsars, church and state became inseperable.  Based on his other actions, I think Lenin was so anti-church because of this relationship.  It's entirely possible, that had the two not been practically the same, Lenin might not have treated the church and Christians as harshly as he did.
Quite true, and thanks.  I was only citing examples, not trying to provide an exhaustive list.  Your post brings up an interesting point:  Lenin rejected religion as an arm of the state and in its place set up an alternative religion of the "working class" as an arm of the state.
I guess I did not really think that you were only citing examples, it's just this Russian one really bothers me because when the tsar regime fell, there was such an intense persecution of Christians, and I wonder if it might not have been like that had there been a seperation of church and state.
I wonder if the tsarist rule would have been so extremely harsh for the poor if there had been a seperation of church and state?
Well in Tudor England if you were the wrong kind of Christian (wrong depending on who the head of England at the Time) you had just as much to worry about as non Christians.

I became a Presbyterian in 2002.  I discovered they have a constitution based on many church creeds and documents throughout church history.  I say that because the groups I was in before have none.  One of them is the "theological declaration of Barmen".  This was written by the few dissidents to the "German Christians" which developed during the rise of Naziism where there was a reinterpretation of Christianity that supported Naziism.  About 14% of clergy resisted this abberation.  I bring this up because although I'm not a history scholar or such, I find a lot of similarities in what happened in this movement and the conservative political religion referred to in this thread.  I think they have the same type of origin and goals (power).
Why when I think of newt Gingrich,  do I get the image of Burgermiester Burgermiester from "Santa Cluas is coming to town, in my head??!

Here's my conflict with this. I have absolutely no problem with people proclaiming their faith and reinforcing good works and good values.

What bothers me about this sort of thing is the implication that their version of "faith" and their version of "good works and good values" are the ONLY viable, "God Approved (tm)" values, virtues, works, and faith.

By all means, reinvigorate your faith. But you must always remember that there are billions of good people in this world who are of different faith, or no "faith," and who do good works, have strong values, have loving virtues and have strong sense of community and belief in the rule of law.

The sort of carnival that goes on at these sorts of events doesn't just stop at their own reaffirmation, though. It turns into an implicit (and in some cases, downright explicit) denigration of anyone and everyone else. And that, to me, is where it gets dangerous. . . and theocratic. 

Exactly. Great post, TC!

TheCharp,

Amen, amen and amen!!!!!  It is exactly the arrogance and hypocrisy of these types that is cited by the many who were recently polled about their religious and faith views, as the reason for leaving the church.  They cited hypocrisy in the leadership of the church communitie as the main reason for them questioning their faith and faith community.  I have not been able to find the poll and its source, but when I do, I will post. 

MaggieCat

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