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George will on Jeans


This comment following the article was hilarious, in a life is funny sort of way...

Well, maybe brother Will will send me some suitable dresses for every day wear...and I'll need some pearls, white gloves, a few hats with veils and a new purse or two. Oh yeah...let's not forget the girdle, stockings and pumps. That sounds pretty suitable for going to Wal Mart and the dollar store where I, a middle class American professional, can afford to shop......

You can find George Will's picture in the dickshunary next to "effeminate snobbery elitist buffoon."

Obviously this not the abridged version of the dictionary.

When I used to watch This Week with David Brinkley, he made me look forward to Sam Donaldson.

What a sad, little man. Must be painful to see the world passing you by.

This from a man who wears a bow tie.

Next.

Yeah, right....

So then why did President Obama accept an invitation to dinner at his home?

That doesn't seem "sad" or "little" at all.    

C'mon, how many people have enough stature to host a President in their house?

Obama may even have worn a bow tie for the occasion, who knows.....   :-)8 

"So then why did President Obama accept an invitation to dinner at his home?"

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  LOL

Who get divorced and then move around the corner from Previous Wife with Current Wife.
LMAO...Misty, you've been watching too much "Reba" again. ;-) 
He's still hating on the cool kids who locked him in his locker, and got all the cheerleaders, while he was left alone with his pocket protector and slide rule.

A lot of people around here love to make fun of the stupid Republicans with their misspelled signs.  Now we are making fun of the intellectual Republicans like George Will.  

Now I know better because I've been around here awhile and have a history with RFO.  But surely some of you guys can see why many Republicans think that their is nothing at all "Republican" about this site.

I agree with you here Brandon.  Ad hominem attacks based on a column about blue jeans, of all things, makes us all look bad. 

Maybe following the example set by President Obama would be in order. ;-)

I'm going to disagree a little here only because George Will asked for it in this case.  I mean, come on, really?  Blue jeans are horribly offensive to him?  When you write something like that you are asking to be called a delicate, little prig.

This is not a political column he wrote.  His topic was neither Republican nor Democratic, neither conservative nor liberal.  It was a  snobbish attack on people he apparently can not relate to on any level, aka us common folks.

If you show yourself to be a delicate diva, then you can hardly complain when you are called a delicate diva.

Here is a link to George Will's column and not just a comment on the column: 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041502861.html

 

Good grief, this man is bitter and crabby. Does he expect women to also go back to hats, gloves & girdles? I'm sorry if my jeans offend you, but I'm going to wear cheap, comfortable clothing.

Having read the actual column, I have to recant my previous position.  The column itself smacks not only of snobbery in it's content, but seems determined to draw class lines; elitist vs everyone else. 

I admire Will's intellect, but cannot admire his "us vs them" mentality in this piece.

I had a feeling that you hadn't read the original
column to get the full gist of the d!ckishness of it.  LOL

You know me pretty well, don't you?  lol  

If there is one thing I cannot stand, it's artificial ways of judging people...and this column is filled with just that.

If you dress in an inappropriate manner aren't you in effect asking to be judged?

People make judgments all the time based on the appropriateness of clothing in social situations.  I don't think that is an elitist attitude but one of respect for either the situation or for yourself.

How many here have whispered dear me when confronted with what seems to be the ubiquitous display of thongs by young sometimes not so young ladies wearing jeans not designed to be sat down in?

Wearing jeans does not automatically translate into inappropriate dress. If a workplace allows jeans on Friday, or all week, it is acceptable.  If one wears jeans to work when it is against the dress code, then the workplace will deal with it (judge) in their way.

Your thong reference made me laugh, and I am sure we have all judged that scenario, in one way or another (depending on our gender ;-), but that isn't the same as passing judgment on all those who wear thongs.  Using Will's logic, all thong wearers would be branded sluts or something equally sleezy.  See his last paragraph about  owning one pair of jeans, and the crowd he considered to be the ones who actually represent those who wear them.

Since I retired, I am in jeans most days.  But I never wore jeans to work, as it was not appropriated for my work place nor my position.  I dress appropriately, depending on the occasion.  If Will sees me in jeans while I am out running errands, he would erronously assume that I don't know how to dress appropriately.

I'll be playing the role of stereotypical male here and say that "thong" is just one of those words that completely grabs a guy's attention... Just saying... Our minds wander fast after that.... It's a gift and curse...
Well, you have to admit that Will put a bulls-eye on himself with that Washington Post op-ed on climate change using a really bad reading of the evidence. It was a great way to stir up controversy, but I don't think Will should have done it, especially since he didn't fully understand the evidence.

I'm betting this column is harmless by comparison.

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It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

Agreed, magus, but the point is to go after the issue, not the man personally.
Yup, and that's why I'm not touching this "scandal".
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It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

But this was not objective reporting where those who read the topic would also have objective views.  This was a personal viewpoint where he exposed his delicate sensibilities.  As I read his article, I could just feel how he was just about to break in the vapors over the thought of how horrible blue jeans are.

If you read George Will's column and not just the link above, you can see how he is making attacks on the classlessness of blue jean wearers.  In that case, blue jean wearers have more than enough cause to make judgments about him.

In any case, it is close to the dumbest column ever.  If this is George Will's biggest issue to focus on, then he must have the most perfect life ever.  I can't believe a grown man spends that much time pondering the wearing of denim by Americans (or at least one who is not in the fashion industry).

If you read George Will's column and not just the link above, you can see how he is making attacks on the classlessness of blue jean wearers. In that case, blue jean wearers have more than enough cause to make judgments about him.

I think what Suzi and Brandon are pointing out is: Just because he throws stuff your way, doesn't mean you have to fight back. In fact, fighting back in the public forum gives strength to his attacks. Best to take the moral high ground and not give the attacks the dignity they don't deserve.

If this is George Will's biggest issue to focus on, then he must have the most perfect life ever.

My mother often says that those who complain about small things have nothing else to do. I think Will's running out of material and/or readers, but that's not enough motivation for me to hit him with my clue bat.

----

It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

Or maybe he wants to be the next Andy Rooney...a curmudgeon, who rambles on about the world as he preceives it.  lol
Having early "Andy Rooney Syndrome" causes older people to obsess on trivial details. Characterized by the excessive use of the question, "What's up with that?"

Some may be jealous that Obama didn't accept their dinner invitation.   Perhaps the President didn't find barbeque elephant steaks appealing enough, even if served with fermented donkey piss.

 

I smell a future menu choice at politcal funtions...

At least I think that's what that smell is....

I posted a Discussion called "Good News from McCainville" because someone from the McCain campaign said something politically TRUE, and it went completely ignored.

Um, not completely, lep.  But I do find that people are much more inclined to focus on the negative, than to discuss any positive solutions or approach.  It's human nature, I guess.

I think we have a combination of forces at work here at RFO: 

The Republicans have become so disgusted at the direction our party has taken, that each new incident fuels that feeling.  It's sort of like a serious marriage problem ....for a while, all you can concentrate on are the wrongs that were done.  It takes a while to see the other side of the coin, and begin some positive steps toward change.

On the other hand, we also have some Dems who see most things Republican as bad, no matter what, and make that very clear.   The problems within their own party are stoically ignored or excused.

The bottom line is, Obama is not typical of either party, and I personally wish more would follow his example of disagreeing without being disagreeable.  But that's just me.  (Although I can be very guilty of being disagreeable at times myself).  Of course, the name calling and divisive tone set by many in Washington and the media do nothing to help citizens like ourselves settle down.

Maybe a more balanced approach to discussions will be reached eventually, but for now, we share the common bond of supporting a visionary President.   That President has been the object of so much unjustified attack and unfounded rumor and name calling, that we will do what we do best....defend and support him, unless he gives us a reason not do...which he hasn't done.

 

Dear Suzi : it's no wonder you're the moderator and somee of us are just peasants with pitchforks.
LOL lep.  Never fear, I am a secret revolting peasant...I just have my pitchfork hidden under my royal moderator robes. ;-)
You're so cool!!!  George Will could never touch you !!!  LOL
Ummm, did I mention that I am also usually wearing my royal jeans?  lol
It's usually surprising for the public to take a campaign manager seriously after he lost spectacularly...
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It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

A lot of people around here love to make fun of the stupid Republicans with their misspelled signs. - Brandon

Republicans are not stupid. Are you 8/yrs old?

I'm sorry, that will be the first and last time I ever use the word stupid and Republican in the same sentence.
Thinking people know the reason they misspell words on signs is that they will grab people's attention.  Most people are so anal that when they see a misspelled word they have to stop and correct it, and launch into one of those internal monologues about it.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Will's article is really bemoaning the state of causalness today versus how things were when more formal - an attidude/perspective change.  Similar to the argument of school uniforms. 

I have to admit I can understand a bit of his perspective.  Growing up in a formal church setting I nearly fell out of the pew the first time I went to my husband's childhood church and people showed up in blue jeans.  To me dressing up what about showing respect for the church and put myself in a proper state of mind.

There's a time and place for all manner of clothing and even all viewpoints.

I guess the question at the heart of this argument is :

Do clothes influence behavior? 

To me in some respect they do.  How much so depends on the person.  Do you find yourself acting/behaving differently when you are dressed up versus casual?

Now I love my jeans but I usually wear them tarted up with heels and such.  I also look forward to Fridays when we can wear jeans to work but I also can tell you Fridays are not my most productive day of the week.  Related possibly.

Marymoo- Do you find yourself acting/behaving differently when you are dressed up versus casual?

Yes, I find that I am not really myself when I feel uncomfortable in stuffy clothing. I feel like I'm pretending to be something I am not. It's just like when I encounter someone who is in a suit, I do not fell relaxed around that person, I feel tense.

Actually I do.  But I also like to dress up on occasion.  If I have an important meeting (even if just a telecon), I will dress up more than when I know I have a lighter work load.  It's like putting on my game face.  I also find that it is distracting when people are poorly dressed (i.e. ill fitting or inappropriate clothing).  For good or worse, clothing does impart an impression and it doesn't have an expensive undertaking to dress well.

However, I do buy dressy clothing that is comfortable b/c it defeats the purpose if you are not.

Marymoo - I think you've got the long and short of Will's point. I'm not sure if he had to devote an entire op-ed to it, but I did grow up with the generations that often say "up yours" to more formal and/or traditional things...
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It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

I also look forward to Fridays when we can wear jeans to work but I also can tell you Fridays are not my most productive day of the week.  Related possibly.

We don't have Casual Friday at my employer and I don't think it would make much difference.  By 2:30 on Friday most people are thinking about the weekend and are ready to go home.  Friday is only as productive as you want it to be.  I often discovered that Monday is much less productive than the rest of the week, because people are recovering from the weekend.

----------------------------------------------------------------------- 

"Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
"Or the one."

- Captain Spock & Admiral James T. Kirk

- Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

I am allowed to wear jeans any day of the week, our dress code is business casual. So as for Fridays being the least productive, sure I find that sometimes, it's Friday and it seems to be the slowest moving day of the week. But I do not think it's because of jeans, as I wear them on all the other days too and I am productive on all of those days, as long as I am feeling well. 
Don't get me wrong, I love my dresses and skirts. But they are more casual than anything. I like skirts that are cotton and have an elastic or stretchy waitband. And most of my dresses are what you might call "hippie dresses. I cannot stand high heels unless they are chunky and not too angled downward. ALso hate pantyhose, never wear them.   I like to put my skirts and dresses on with out any of the other stuff, you know slips and such.

I don't know much about George Will, but he sounds like an old fashioned fuddy-duddy.  The type of person who laments the past without looking at the brightness of what is yet to come.  I don't mean that to be an insult either.  Just a personality description.   

Personally, I love jeans and prefer them.  They will hold up much better than my dress clothes.  90% of the people at my former church worn jeans on Sunday.  As it was never about what you wore, but what was in your heart.   

I hate to wear ties and haven't voluntarily worn one since 2007, when I had two family funerals in a row.  Polo shirts and khakis are sufficient enough for work, so I don't have to worry about ties there, either.  

Sometimes, when I'm not going out I'll just put on a pair of sweatpants and veg in front of the television.

------------------------------------------------------------------   

"Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
"Or the one."

- Captain Spock & Admiral James T. Kirk

- Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

I can't believe he's using Fred Astaire as his fashion icon. No wonder young people are flocking to the GOP in thundering herds....
I seriously heart you, Misty.

I'm not advocating a return to any previous era, but there is something interesting about seeing how formal people used to be.

Whenever I see pictures of people from the 1950s shopping downtown or eating in a restaurant, it is amazing how dressed up they are.  

My dad took my older brother to see the St. Louis Cardinals play in 1965 and they both wore a suit and tie to the baseball game.  They took lots of pictures and you can see that almost every man and kid has on a tie at the game.

Again, I'm not wanting to go back but we've become so informal today that I think we've lost something, but I'm not sure I can put into words what it is. 

 

 

It reminds me of the Star Trek episode "Time's Arrow", where 19-century Americans took one look at futuristic uniforms and called them "pajamas". Classic!
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It's sad that we've reached a point where 'government service' is a dirty word... If we're the greatest country on earth, maybe we can have the greatest government.

Lewis Black

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