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Georgia On My Mind...Or How The Candidates Respond To A 3a.m. Moment


By Suzi LeVeaux - Posted on 09 August 2008

The Russian invasion of Georgia has touched off a real-time 3 a.m. moment for the two presidential candidates, and their reactions show a marked difference in how each would handle a crisis on the world stage. This from Politico:

<When the North Caucasus slid into war Thursday night, it presented John McCain and Barack Obama with a true “3 a.m. moment,” and their responses to the crisis suggested dramatic differences in how each candidate, as president, would lead America in moments of international crisis. >

Read the article here.  Please note how the McCain lobbyists ties rears it's ugly head again.

Yeah, I don't know about you, Suzi, but I've been a little disconcerted at how much more time is being devoted to Edwards's love life and the Olympics than to the situation in Georgia.

It's really really scary how aggressive McCain's mentality is...even when the U.S. is unprovoked and unthreatened. There's nothing conservative about his stance.

You're exactly right Barbara.  And the story gets muddier (is that a word?) the deeper you dig into it.  Few people seem to know that there are US troops in Georgia.  It seems that there is a move afoot to paint the area as the next front in the "war on terror".  But once again, oil is involved.  This article sums it up well, although I've read many others, some supporting and some against, from all sides of the political spectrum. 

Romantic involvements and athletic prowness fade away in comparison.  McCain's aggressive nature is scary when this type of crisis arises.  I keep remembering him saying at a town hall meeting that "there will be more wars".

Wow! Georgia the next war on terror!? I tell ya...there's no peace I find.

Already was a "frontline"- lend an ear to this interview

http://antiwar.com/radio/2008/08/12/brendan-o%e2%80%99neill-2/ 

McCain, sounds like Bush...shoot first, ask questions later.

^^^^^^^
Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus

 

Yea, and from reading the article, for the same reasons.  Scary, huh?  

I thought it was bomb first, then if there's anyone left to ask questions, bomb some more.

Right, keep bombing until there's no one left to answer the questions. Yeah it's scary, be afraid, be VERY afraid.

^^^^^^^
Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus

 

Saturday: Russia insisted there would be no ceasefire until all Georgian troops had withdrawn from South Ossetia

Yes, We Can

Sunday: Georgia called a cease-fire and said its troops were retreating Sunday from the disputed province of South Ossetia in the face of Russia's far superior firepower. Russia said the soldiers were "not withdrawing but regrouping" and refused to recognize a truce.

The West is vying for influence with Russia over oil and gas supply routes. The U.S. military began flying 2,000 Georgian troops home from Iraq after Georgia recalled them, even while calling for a truce. - More

Yes, We Can

I recall hearing somewhere that it wouldn't be beneath the GOP to "start" another war in any area...to claim victory this fall. I am not saying anything ;), but I am just saying.

I've heard the same rumors suthn.  Iran was usually the intended target.

But the opposite seems to be happening.  I see the GOP leaning more towards Obama's positions in an attempt to head him off at the pass, I would think.  I hope voters are wise enough to see that there are worlds of differences.  Namely, Obama's positions are real.

Thinking of going to war with Russia makes me start to relive the Cold War days.  NOT a pleasant thought.

Obama has released a strong statement, following talks with Sec of State Rice, and the Georgian president.
It seems like Obama has a good relationship with Rice. Maybe she is pushing more for diplomacy as she sees the wisdom he brings to the table. I don't expect a Rice endorsement but I think she is one of those "secret" supporters. Oh and don't be shocked when we see criticism that Obama is already "acting like president" in talking with Rice & the Georgian president. It couldn't be that he is truly concerned about this grave situation and it's implications here at home, now could it?
Suzi I agree with the statement that McCain is
"needlessly belligerent and dangerously quick to judge" and is an example of why he must be defeated in November.
It's another situation that has deep roots and is tangled with oil politics. The Caspian Basin lies close to a corridor to both Afghanistan and Iran. The BTC pipeline makes Georgia geopolitically important as the conduit for Azebaijan's oil to western markets. An escalation of violence there puts that at risk, and so must be handled with care.

You are so right, Lyra.  As the article I linked clearly points out, it's all about oil, gas and big business.  Of course, "the war on terror" and oppressive regimes will once again be used as the rationalization, if "pre-emptive" moves are made by the US.  Thanks for pointing out the link to oil for those who didn't read the article.

Also, in reading, it's clear that this started under the Clinton administration, and has escalated under the current one.  I still hold the opinion that both major parties are in the pockets of oil and big business.  One of the huge advantages of Obama being so new to the Washington scene is that he hasn't been "bought".  AND, I truly believe that he will not sell his soul, and will be the one to finally start to loosen the strangle-hold big business has on our government. I pray I am right.

"and will be the one to finally start to loosen the strangle-hold big business has on our government. I pray I am right."

Yes, I'm with you there. But we have to remember that monumental change will take time, and that the path by neccessity travels through compromises. So much is so wrong it will take more than Obama's two terms to begin to correct the road we've been on.

And it will require more Republicans waking up!

I agree with all you say here, Lyra.  It will be a long, slow process, and big business will NOT give up easily.  Government has been far to profitable for them to go down without a fight.

Not only will more Republicans have to wake up, but Democrats too.  Sad to say, the elite of both parties are firmly in the pocket of big business, which is why they donate so heavily to both national parties.  If you follow the money trail, and the twists and turns of big business and government, it is all there to discover.  It is time for both sides to stop blindly believing in their party, and to start to believe in "we the people" once again. 

Yes, and that's our fault as much as the party elite - we elect them and then we quit paying attention. We've relinquished our control. All in all we fail at good citizenship.

 We don't do our research, we don't speak out to our elected officials, instead we buy the party line and the sound bytes. We engage in strawman arguments with our neighbors (if we talk of politics at all) because that's easier than seeking clarity and spending a little introspective time really looking at issues.

Maybe even most seriously, we seek out only viewpoints that will confirm our own beliefs and pander to our own prejudices, rather than trying to understand a different perspective. We forward "bubba chump emails" without bothering to verify the validity of what's being expressed, and I'm sorry to say it's the conservatives among us that are most guilty of that.

Here, it is so refreshing to share perspectives in a mostly intelligent way.

I figured it out.

Here I was thinking, why the hell does McCain want to get us entangled in a tiff between Georgia and Russia? But then I figured it out! He misunderstood altogether...he clearly must be thinking the security of Atlanta is in jeopardy...he's insisting that Russia withdraw all troops or he'll move in to protect the Falcons and the Braves.

that's gotta be what it is....right?

Yea, that's it!  After all, Atlanta's already been burned once.  But, the Russians can have the Falcons. hehehe

Hey, now....be nice :)

They may be the Cubs of the NFL, but they have been my team since I was knee high to a grasshopper.

 It's all good. :)

 

One thing you'll learn about me pc, is that I'm usually very nice, except when it come to football!  There, I'm viciousl. lol  Ya see, I'm down here in NO Saints land, and the Falcons are our sworn enemy, although we have to fight it out for the cellar.  ;-)

Now, if you tell me you're an UGA Bulldog too, I may have to rethink our friendship.  hehehe

:) I can respect the Saints.....we both have shed a lot of tears for our teams. But, have you noticed that no matter how badly our teams are doing, our fans always seem to fill the stadium? Just shows that we both have the best fans in the NFL. :)

Not a Bulldog fan at all. No worries there. I don't have a specific college team that I follow. When it comes to college teams, I just like to watch a good game.

ATTENTION EVERYONE:  WANT TO KNOW WHY MCCAIN IS QUIET ABOUT EDWARDS's AFFAIR?  GO TO WOMENFORJOHNMCCAIN.COM AND FIND OUT ABOUT HOW HE FEELS ABOUT WOMEN!!!

I first would like to comment on the Georgia conflict.  Imagine that when our own Civil War was being fought, Spain decided to attack Florida because it used to belong to them and they wanted it back.  Who's fault would that be? 

More importantly, this post seems to be about judgement under pressure.  I've seen enough in print about  the Reverend Wright debacle(from mentor, advisor and friend to denial, and finally to disavowing)  the Obama home purchase deal ( with the help of an indicted felon and Obama fundraiser), the flip on off-shore drilling (when the polls showed 70% in favor of it).

I don't need to wait for a 3 a.m. moment.  I don't like the judgement shown during regular hours.  McCain is no prize, but holding Obama in high regard for his judgement under pressure is skating on thin ice, considering documented history.

 

We've missed you, Commissioner.

First off, I don't think a McCain supporter can really go pointing fingers at Obama when it comes to flip-flopping. I used to think Romney was the king, but McCain usurped him. Perhaps he'll allow Romney to be his vice-flopper, though. That's a match made in heaven, right there.

As far as judgment calls, McCain's got quite a colorful history himself.

First there's his marriage. Even he admits it's pretty poor form to court your future wife while married to your current one.

His campaign financing? Fraught with problems...from bankruptcy to a flip-flop on whether to accept federal funds to legal troubles with the FEC. Not to mention he decided to finance his campaign via an army of lobbyist bundlers.

He chose to feature Paris Hilton in one of his campaign ads. The decision was widely mocked by ad execs.

And perhaps most concerning, much like Bush does, McCain seems to have a really difficult time judging character. The upper echelons of his campaign staff have been entered only by way of a continually revolving door, with a dozen or more top advisers being removed due to scandal, allegations of improper conduct, or poor performance.

But we're talking about foreign policy, so perhaps we should keep on topic:

There's Vietnam. He thinks we should have stayed.

Iraq? One of the biggest proponents of getting involved, and most Americans feel that - regardless of how we handle the future of Iraq - we never should have gotten involved in the first place.

And his comments on the war since then have been all over the map...shown a profound lack of awareness of the facts and ability to develop and deliver a coherent vision of the future of the engagement.

Then there's Georgia. His remarks hint at a man looking for any reason to get involved. That's not judgment...that's prejudgment. Have we learned nothing over the last ten years?

Call it how you see it, sir, but I don't trust McCain's judgment at all.

Oh, and btw there's no e in judgment, Commish.

Hi Barbara,

Thanks for the welcome back.  I said before that I may vote for "None of the Above".  I was just pointing out that Obama has plenty of baggage, too.

It's really sad that we are having a debate over which of the two candidates are the least tainted by corruption, are the least influenced or bought by special interests, are the least morally corrupt and are the least likely to be lying on any number of topics.  What a process to elect a president.  This kind of politics may have been going on since George Washington, but now we are in the internet era and can find information (true and false) by the ton.......and hopefully we can distill the facts.

Obama and McCain do agree on one thing.  Washington is broken.  We'll see whether either of them can fix it.  That's my judgement. 

BTW, either spelling of judgement, or judgment is correct.  The one with the "e" is Old English, and the "e" was removed in a Webster dictionary revision.  As I am old, I prefer the one with the "e".

 

 

Another unfair headline/article (the front page teaser was Obama Moves Closer to McCain on Russia) from CNN. Instead of showing the wisdom of Obama assessing the situation as events on the ground change, allowing time for Russia to do the right thing before we make serious threats, making thought-out judgements, they will slant this to look like McCain is the king of foreign policy and Obama is just following his lead. Very disappointing. This is why McCain's foreign policy numbers are always higher than Obama. Nevermind that the McCain/Bush Iraq stance makes their arguments to Russia laughable and not respected. 

 

Did President Saakashvili miscalculate?

George Bush denounces Russia's "dramatic and brutal" escalation of violence... doesn't issue specific threat...

Putin has told George Bush, and the other world leaders, in so many words, to back the f*** off.

1. Do not punch a bear on the nose unless it is tied down.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili must have thought that Russia would not react strongly when he sent his forces in on the eve of the Olympic games to regain control of a territory he had insisted must remain part of Georgia, albeit with some form of autonomy.

7. The West still does not know how to deal with Russia.

Some of the old Cold War arguments are resurfacing, with no consensus about what to do. There are the neo-conservatives, led by US Vice-President Dick Cheney (and supported by Republican presidential candidate John McCain) who see Georgia (and Ukraine) as flag bearers for freedom which must be supported. In due course, they argue, Russia will be forced to change, just as the old Soviet Union was. - BBC News

Yes, We Can

Your wrong Izzy! Americans aren't stupid! if a republican like myself can see mccain eager stance to go to war with Russia , others will to! a lot of us saw the calm obama protrayed, and the intelligence to stand back a ways an asses the situation an than speak with diplomacy and not with anger, and egerness for war like mccain did! Other blogs had already inlighten us to Mccains/ lobbyest connection to Georgia and the oil there! so we were watching how Mccain VS Obama responded! We do not stand behind mccain an his War/Bragging/Angery/ Blustering/Bragging Thumping way to handle dangerouse situation! this old man is dangerouse to us all!
Jupitor-Welcome to the RFO family. I don't usually thank someone for telling me I'm wrong but your response sure put a smile on my face and a glimmer of hope in my heart. I guess I still can't get over that week of negative McCain ads-and the medai spin- and how the poll numbers shifted to McCain. I just wonder if many people just blindly follow the MSM without probing further. Thank goodness for blogs because they really show many angles and perspectives, not just the "spin." I don't want to come across wrong especially to our Dem friends here, but many Republicans I know are quite intelligent and well-educated. While some choose to follow Rush & Co. (I used to listen, too) I think most are smart enought to see through the truth in terms of this Georgia situation and most issues we've discussed here. It's refreshing to see prominent leaders on the Republican side supporting Obama publically. I think there are many like us but they are still secretive about their support so hopefully this will inspire them to proudly come forward. This thread makes me fearful of a McCain presidency and all points need to be fully examined-so why don't we hear more from the media? What I keep hearing from CNN, "John McCain can play this to his advantage. He looks tough. He predicted this. Obama shifted towards McCain's stance. Blah. Blah. Blah" instead of doing the basic research they are paid to do.

Did McCain Plagiarize His Speech on the Georgia Crisis?

A Wikipedia editor emailed Political Wire to point out some similarities between Sen. John McCain's speech today on the crisis in Georgia and the Wikipedia article on the country Georgia. Given the closeness of the words and sentence structure, most would consider parts of McCain's speech to be derived directly from Wikipedia. - Link

Yes, We Can

Misty, we have found obama often use's other people word or go in the past to repeat. Like the work Bitter he is useing now in Pa, because he can't think of something original. I believe mccain speech writter did plagiarize right off of Wikipedia. Sense mccain has little to do with high tech. of any kind, he wouldn't have caught this. But that speech writter needs to be replaced. If he manages to actually read any of these blog's or some one alse in hisparty does, they will probally shrug their shoulders and see's no harm in it any how! Nothing he's does wrong is ever picked up by the media any how! It's real sad how bias the media is against Obama and covers for Mccain. Ya, believe it, that from a republican!
Mccain said he spoke for all american when he said we back Georgia! No this man does not speak for me! This is why I am voteing Dem this year, instead of Republican. Georgia was killing Russians in South "O"! So the russian moved in to stop it and took it way to far! But Georgia is far from innocent in this! mccain knows this, his manager lobbyed for Georgia and if it was left up to Mccain, we'd be Bombing Russia right now! He has War in his brain and soul, and he's a dangerouse man! Barking  with out deplomacy is always dangerouse! Obama did deplomacy and than barked with deplomacy! he did so in Iraq, and it gave the iraqi leaders the in they needed to stand up to Bush and the U.S for a pull out time table. this is why I won't vote Repub this year and vote Obama with a capital "O"!

Welcome, Jupitor! We always love to see a fellow Republican Obama supporter!

Thank Barbara. Just heard about this sight on Huff"O. Been blogging their for a while. I'm from Neb., and we had our first caucus here, and wow how exciteing it was! I really like our Chuck Hagel, and I have high hopes for him and Obama to work together. they have a lot in common, as a lot of republican are finding their way to the Dem party. I recruted my 72 year old nieghbor for obama last week. Not many like mccain, just stuck so long in the repub party that it's become routine now!
Hey welcome aboard Jupitor! Hey I was thinking last year that if Hagel had run for President and won the GOP nomination I would have crossed party lines to vote for him. I would gladly do so if he ran in the future and got the Republicans' nod. If he stumps for Obama in the fall that can be a big asset. Good job on your efforts in your home state! I've had some success here in Michigan convincing several conservative friends of mine to consider Obama, and this is in a heavily conservative-Republican area of MI. And they're excited to vote for him in November. Keep it up!
Welcome, Jupitor! Fellow Husker here. What part of the state are you from? I'm in a small town in the central part. :)

Very good, another red-state Obama fan. I'm just a ways down the Interstate down here in the Sooner State. Good to have you.

A must see video - Republicans and Military Men on McCain

"McCain would make Cheney look like Ghandi" - Pat Buchanan

pcmedic, I'm from down near the Kansas, nebr. border. Small town called Alma! Had to leave for awhile. I'm not real good at this yet. I've been busy conveinceing seniors to look at Obama. Most of them don't really care for Mccain, but just didn't want the bother of changeing party's.
OMG....I'm just north of GI. We're practically neighbors. :)

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