Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), most insipid idiotic knee jerker claims - "Stimulus bill is anti-Christian"
Not only that, he actually got 43 Senators to vote with him to strip language from the bill, basic legal language that's been part of every education funding legislation for over 4 decades.
43 SENATORS! and these are supposed to be the astute ones, and it included 4 Democrtats, 5 if you want to count Lieberman.
Pat Robertson's legal institute hit the airwaves with a bit of falsehood, it took off like wildfire until it burned on the Senate Floor.
And if it were just some random yahoos screaming about a non-existent threat, this would merely be annoying. But right-wing whining about the imaginary attack came to the attention of Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), who actually tried to remove the legal language from the bill. Consider just how truly ridiculous his remarks were on the Senate floor yesterday:
This is a provision "that would make sure students could never talk openly and honestly about their faith ... what this means is that students can't meet together in their dorms if that dorm has been repaired with federal money and have a prayer group or a Bible study. They can't get together in their student centers. They can't have a commencement service where a speaker talks about their personal faith." ... Student groups would be banned and "classes on world religions and religious history, academic studies of religious texts could be banned ... Someone is so hostile to religion that they are willing to stand in the schoolhouse door, like the infamous George Wallace, to deny people of faith from entering into any campus building renovated by this bill. This cannot stand!"
Please remember, every sentence -- literally, every single sentence -- in that paragraph is wrong. Indeed, everything DeMint said was the polar opposite of reality, driven entirely by a reading-comprehension mistake made by someone at Pat Robertson's legal group.
You've got to read the whole thing - I got wind of it listening to Christian Broadcast radio and had to look it up.
"Once in a while, the political process is so hopelessly insane, one wonders how the system ever functions at all."
And the worst part is, not one Senator stood up and said DeMitt was lying, not one Senator challenged his diatribe!
This is from the follow up article in Washington Monthly. An earlier account here.
As it turns out -- surprise, surprise -- this entire uproar is based on nothing. The hysteria is based on the religious right's apparent illiteracy.
"This provision upholds constitutional standards established by the U.S. Supreme Court and in no way affects student groups that meet on public school campuses," said the Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. [...]
"It's almost a restatement of what the Constitution requires so there's nothing novel in what the House did in its restriction," said Christopher Anders, senior legislative counsel to the ACLU. "For 37 years, the law of the land is that the government can't pay for buildings that are used for religious purposes."
DeMint needs to crawl back
I can't get worked up over
I can't get worked up over DeMint's ploy. It looks like preparation for 2010 video clips and ads. Plus, it is one more nuisance argument in the conservatives' "peck them to death with details" fight strategy.
A lot of new democratic congressmen and women are first time-in-a-long-time dems in swing districts, some with large enough evangelical populations to swing an election back if the Repubs can get the religious right energized about something -- war on Xmas, same-sex marriage, stimulus for Satan, or whatever.
If the stimulus is anything less than perfect in its results (quite likely), Repubs can finger democrats in 2010 who voted for the "disastrous" or "fatally flawed" package AND tried to persecute christian kids in schools -- or whatever his argument is, I couldn't quite follow it).
New Repub/Conservative candidate X then gets to say something like "I will defend moral values, protect christian children from discrimination, AND bring fiscal responsibility back to Washington."
I wouldn't be surprised if DeMint doesn't believe most or all of this or doesn't particularly care. But if he can get a good talking point in that helps them get back a house seat -- or helps him keep his own -- it's worth his little show and tell time on the floor of Congress.
I suspect God has a lot less to do with this than head count.
"insipid idiotic knee
"insipid idiotic knee jerker"
Hey, Name calling is permitted on the site again. Yippee...or should I say "Kum Bay Yah." ;-)
How are you feeling, Suzi?
Anybody who's a wanker for
Anybody who's a wanker for the Robertson people, deserves to be called names.
It's too bad that Robertson can't be judged by the old testament law he loves so much. GOD, and I mean GOD has proved him to be a false prophet several times, and under OT law, he should be taken out and stoned. And I don't mean the "medical" kind either.
That was "most insipid
Hey, I said that....lol
Um, he can call "claims"
Um, he can call "claims" anything he wants to as long as it isn't profane. So that was you, huh?
Feeling kinda rotten....and it makes me cranky. lol
Kum Bay Yah standing on it's own is allowed too. ;-) Shall we sing???
Well, with any luck, Pres.
Well, with any luck, Pres. Kum Bay Yah had so many people douse his campfire earlier this week that it may be a while before he convenes another sing-a-long.
He and Axelrod were on tv today (separately), and those guys were NOT in a singing mood. Maybe he will become Pres. Kick-Yah-Butt.
I am looking forward to seeing him on the stump for the stimulus bill this week. THAT could get me singing.
Sorry you feel rotten. Feel better.
Thanks...I will feel better
Thanks...I will feel better if you stop calling Obama Pres Kum Bay Yah....I said KBY was ok staning alone....lol
I'm looking forward to the coming week also....I'm seeing the Obama of the closing weeks of the campaign. Still open to unity (KBY) but vowing to kick butt if it isn't forthcoming. My president rocks!!
"I will feel better if you
"I will feel better if you stop calling Obama Pres Kum Bay Yah."
Shouldn't be a problem...I purused some of the active threads for acceptable forms of disapprobation. Next time I am bothered by something he does, I will just say,
"President Obama, why are you an idiotic<edit>?
Always happy to cooperate.
Fell off the chair and am
LOL...You are too much.
LOL...You are too much. And you know you are trying my patience, don't you? ;-)
Now, first graders, that is only acceptable is that happens to be the person's first name.
But teacher, what if his
Here's your hall pass, and
Here's your hall pass, and spit out that gum on your way out.
Now stop pushing your luck young man!!!!
I bet you both used to
Still open to unity (KBY)
Still open to unity (KBY) but vowing to kick butt if it isn't forthcoming. My president rocks!!
Yes he showed to all his willingness to work with them and they tried to take advantage of his good will offering. Obama still won the day because the Republicans revealed their true side as a dirty fighting unprincipled gang.
Now Obama can "kick butt" and we know they forced him to do so. Everyone witness their refusal to take the hand but rather try to knock him down.
And an RFO Curmdugeon Shall
And an RFO Curmdugeon Shall Lead them
From Charles Blow -- super pro Obama NYT columnist, Saturday morning. LEAD LINE no less.
"It took just two weeks for Washington’s Kumbaya experiment in bipartisan civility to explode in turgid rants, finger-pointing and re-entrenchment."
Oh, Suzi...that standing ovation isn't necessary. And flowers, too? You shouldn't have.
You didn't get the candy???
Of course I got the candy ,
I'm so glad that you had
He and Axelrod were on tv
I was a bit annoyed with the "Pres. KBY" stuff myself, but I like this moniker. Heh heh.
----And there's no sense crying over every mistake
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake.
Hey nightporch - did you
Yeah, with K-12 education
Everytime I learn about the
Everytime I learn about the stupidity of some members of the republican party, I get less and less optimistic about the future of the partry.
What an assinine comment.
I will not throw the punch but I wil certainly throw the last.....President Barack Obama.
Obama had better learn to
Obama had better learn to throw the first punch...maybe the second and third, too, until he gets the hang of it.
"I will not throw the punch but I wil certainly throw the last.....President Barack Obama."
Pres Obama had better get used to throwing the first punch or at least learn how.
The Repub/Con opposition -- extremely effective opposition I might add -- is doing exactly what they have been doing since Gingrich laid out the combat strategy in 1994:
a) Define the debate before the opposition does (Spending bill, liberal pork, vs Jobs or Recovery bill). Check.
b) TOTALLY unify the message (Limbaugh sounds like Boehner sounds like McConnell vs. Reid sounds like Reid, Pelosi sounds like Pelosi, and Obama on Tuesday does not sound like Pelosi, or Reid or even Obama on Friday). Check.
c) Demonize the opposition with small details.Check.
(At no time did Gingrich ever direct his people to make sure they were factually accurate; "demonize" pretty much makes that optional).
Despite 15 years advance notice -- FIFTEEN YEARS -- and no Republication deviation from strategy, Obama's team and democrats are dumbfounded that they find themselves on defense (big time) against a re-defined, unified minority message that is hitting them with little details. And the current bill reflects how effective the opposition is: 20% overall reduction in the bill with tax breaks comfortably over 40%.
It was refreshing to see Obama using a bit of mockery and stick waving the last two days...it might be little and late, but it's a start and maybe a roadmap for the future.
Looking around a little
Looking around a little more on the knee jerker claims, fire's just getting started among the Christian Right. Googling <"stimulus bill" anti-christian"> yields 63,000 returns, which accounts for all the calls in opposition to Senate offices.
Demint stands by his 'nefarious conspiracy' rant. His press release says:
People for the American Way, a civil rights group whose mission is to protect "Equality. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion. The right to seek justice in a court of law. The right to cast a vote that counts. The American Way." offers a section called Right Wing Watch with good commentary. A full recap is here. Perhaps DeMint and Robertson's ACLJ is taking a page from Rev. Sun Myung Moon and engaging in some Heavenly Deception
"The ‘Big Lie’ Strategy: Religious Right Stokes False Fears of Religious Persecution"
Numerous examples of this same Constitutionally correct standard boilerplate legislative language can be found at RIght Wing Watch link above.
The actual language at issue is found here:
ACLJ Demands Non-Existent Threat Be Stripped from Stimulus Bill
Evan Bayh??? He's no patsy of the Christian Right, he's been there long enough to be familiar with standard legislative language and the Constitution. Why are these folks so gullible?
I could so go off on a long
I could so go off on a long tirade about this <expletive> statement from DeMint, but I won't.
I'm just going to bite my tongue and back slowly away.
Also, I'm Thanking God for the critical thinking skills that he gave me and for encouraging me use them on a regular basis. Yea God!
Tikkun olam - Repairing the World
They have no idea what the
And if you're outraged that DeMint is playing them as patsies, more power to you. Sad that even now they only think of their constituencies as fools to be misled.
----And there's no sense crying over every mistake
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake.
The problem might be down
Then the argument on
If they prohibit religious activity in a federally-supported building, they would have to ban prayers in the Senate and House, and they can't do that constitutionally.
Now, if someone builds a church/synagogue/mosque with federal funds, THAT would violate the Establishment Clause.
----And there's no sense crying over every mistake
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake.
Nope. Already been well
Nope. Already been well addressed. The Supreme Court ruled in 1981 that public universities must give the same access to facilities to religious groups that is granted to non-religious ones.
If a school, whether it is primary, secondary or higher education, allows groups to use it's facilities, they must also permit use by student oriented religious groups.
In no way will the language affect groups like "Good News" after school programs or Christian Athletes.
This legislative language has been in use for decades on every education funding bill in order to be in compliance with the Constitutions prohibition on using tax dollars to fund religion.
The stimulus funding is even available to religious schools, just not to be applied to portions of buildings whose primary use is sectarian religious education or worship. Or sporting facilities in fact.
Do you suppose any lawsuits will come from the national offices of Little League?
Apparently law suits are
Apparently law suits are already being prepared by the wingnutters - as discrimination. Wheee hoooo, the "war on Christians" continues.
Americans United offers some legal info and a link to the letter they sent to each Senator before the vote. Which means there isn't a single Senator that could claim that ignorance led them to vote for DeMint's amendment.
I'm not sure I could get any more disgusted with the Republican party.
Hey, l still love Jesus and
Hey, l still love Jesus and he's still my Savior, but l don't think l can be an Evangelical anymore. lt looks like the Evangelicals' unholy alliance with the neo-cons has created a conservative Christian/Republican delusional group-think response with which l can no longer identify.
May God save the Republican Party from its current insanity.
Carly, what does being "an
Carly, what does being "an evangelical" mean to you?
Evangelicalism is historically defined as having 4 parts.
1. Accepting Jesus is your savior.
2. A belief that the message of Jesus should be spread.
3. Respecting the authority of the Bible as the Word of God.
4. Believing in the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ.
None of which has anything to do with politics.
Exactly. But it has to do
Tell it to the dominionists
Tell it to the dominionists and the other conservative Christians who are all about getting people saved but when it comes down to it could care less about those people's physical needs. Tell it to the religious right that approves of the use of torture and supports all manner of unholy things because that's what a good Christian does.
Your list is lovely, but doesn't reflect the current reality in many churches and para-church groups throughout the country.
I think that's the point
I think that's the point Brandon - politicized religion has everything to do with politics but nothing to do with Christ's message.
When your community fails you and your spiritual needs, time to find new community.
Thank you, Nightporch.
I have to agree with Brandon
Brandon may have come up
Brandon may have come up with a nice definition... However, he is part of the single issue movement to put anyone, regardless of competence, in the White House that would appoint anti-choice judges (again regardless of competence in other areas) to the Supreme Court in hopes of overturning Roe v. Wade.
Which part of the definition does that fall under?
You missed my point, alina,
You missed my point, alina, which was that the word itself has been twisted into something ugly and manipulative by the actions of the religous right, thereby changing the defination in the eyes of the public. THAT is what I resent.
I can't speak to Brandon's current position in the movement, but I do know that he has joined another board that we're just getting started, TLC, whose main goal is to reclaim our party from the dominance of the religious right. He has said here that the past election was a wake up call of sorts for him.
I don't know where he stands now when it comes to injecting religious views into government. Maybe he will address that here for us. Brandon?
Sorry Suzi - any snark in
Sorry Suzi - any snark in my comment was unintentional and if anything directed at Brandon's unwaivering stances during the election...
Boy, if he really changed his ways that would be quite refreshing!
I think you missed my point
I think you missed my point Alina which was that being an evangelical Christian has nothing to do with where one stands on politics or issues. It only has to do with where one stands on Jesus Christ.
As a person of faith, it would be impossible for my Christian philosophy of life not to have a big impact on where I stand on certain issues. I feel strongly that abortion is the taking of an innocent human life, so naturally I would like to see the government protect this life.
But Christians can have all sorts of views on various political issues. I'm pro the death penalty, but many Christians are 100% opposed.
The U.S. is a very diverse nation and getting more so every year. The Republican Party has to reach out to people of all faiths, creeds, races, ethnicities etc. or we have no future. We can't just be the party of white conservative Christian Southerners.
The 9 core Republican principles that are spelled out at the Lincoln Coalition should be the core values of the party and they should also appeal to a wide range of Americans.
"Boy, if he really changed
"Boy, if he really changed his ways that would be quite refreshing"
My own conservative views have not changed and if the election was being held today I'd vote the same way I did last November.
But I also understand that what Republicans offered in November of 2008 was rejected by the majority of American voters. I want to make sure that in the future there is no need for Republicans to form websites or groups advocating voting for the Democratic candidate.
If that means I have to make compromises and support more moderate viewpoints than I might personally hold, then that is the reality of the situation and I'm willing to bend.
Good to hear, Brandon!
Good to hear, Brandon!
Now take this, multiply it
Thank the sweet sweet Lord
Christian Broadcast
Christian Broadcast Network: Lies lies lies:
Nightporch- this is
Yes, the intent is
Yes, the intent is certainly to undermine the administration and all it stands for.
And I think it's largely about fundraising, Sekulow and his cadre of "Christian" lawyers are not stupid - they passed their bar exams and they know the reality of the law. (DeMint and some of his cohorts in Congress - maybe not so much. They ran for office in order to be on the front lines on the 'war agaisnt Christians.') But they've got money pouring in to Christian Right organizations and the ACLJ to fight this "abomination of anti-religious government action" of Obama and the Democrats.
Unfortunately, thousands if not millions of otherwise well-intentioned Christians are being duped and fleeced of their hard earned cash. They are treated like cash cow chumps by movement leaders.
But the greatest travesty is the widespread sowing of resentment.
Spend a couple hours listening to Christain radio.
It used to be that the airwaves were filled with sermons, devotionals and sacred music, now it is filled with rightwing news and perspectives.
It's scary actually. And all that during a 45 minute drive across town.
Last week I listened to a rant about how "liberals" think our children should have a healthy self-esteem. But, I was told, criminals that fill our jails have "healthy self esteem" and that's what contributed to their criminal behaviour, it's far better and more Godly to raise our children to know they are sinners and to be submissive to authority in the way we must be submissive to God's authority.
What to do about it? That's a tough question. Anyone who speaks out against all this is cast as anti-Christian, even if, as in most cases, the speaker is themself Christian.
Still, it's important to be informed, to talk about it with friends and family, to our church communities, and most certainly to our political leaders. On political blogs :) Withstand the backlash, defend your faith. For too long the Christian Right has defined what it is to be Christian in the public square.
Support the real defenders of religious liberty for all. The clergy led Americans United for Separation fo Church and State. Yes, and even the ACLU. No organization has been more demonized by rightwing talk radio Christians than the ACLU, but the reality is that the ACLU fights for the civil rights and religious liberty of all people of faith, and have countless times defended the rights of Christains - even the nutty ones. Just a few are listed here and here. Look for interfaith organizations in your community and get to know them, see how all this shrillness affects their views of what it means to be American.
But to remain silent is to yield to the Robertsons of the world.