Is anyone as terrified as I am?
Hi,
I just joined (as a peaceful Democrat) your site yesterday. I've been encouraged by what I have seen here, and it actually makes me think of 1980 when Reagan's election was made partly possible by "Reagan Democrats", who crossed the party line for what they felt was the good of the country. I'm hoping that 28 years later, the GOP (and specifically people like your good selves) will return the favor...and in the process return the country to all of us who yearn for its restoration of glory.
But, I have to admit. I'm truly scared out of my mind that McCain will still win this thing. If the current GOP (I will keep using the term "current" until you guys are able to restore your party to its former state of legitimate sanity and level-headedness) has shown anything over the past eight years, it is that they will do ANYTHING to win, even at the expense of all that they are supposed to uphold. I can't begin to imagine what tricks they still have up their sleeves. The polls show this thing as being so close, and I don't know if that's because they (the ratings-hungry networks) want the drama to be heightened, or if the young voters aren't being reflected in the polls, or if the "voter enthusiasm" element isn't appearing, or if it really is that close. Other than the obscenely and unconscionably (sp?) wealthy, the cave-dwelling religious right, and the racists (outward or closet) who refuse to elect a black man, why in the name of everything that is just and decent in this world would you not vote for Obama? Are you guys (traditional Reps who are fed up with your party and are doing what is right) a microscopic entity statistically, or are you a stronger force than the media will admit? Trust me, that's not a slap in the face; I don't know how large this group is adn how many friends you have who feel the same way. I have to tell you. I don't want Obama to just win this thing. I want him to win in a relative landslide (which will be incredibly hard to do) and send a message that we're fed up with the politics of Dubya and the Rovians.
So, back to my original question. Am I being neurotic for no good reason, or are you guys also terrified that people will give in to unsubstantiated fears and make the wrong choice yet again?
As always, I eagerly look forward to your responses and value the obvious wisdom, goodness, and progressive thinking that is on full display here.
Cheers,
Jim
Well, we are a minority of
Well, we are a minority of the party (most polls put our number at 5-6% of Republicans), but we are getting the word out. One thing that gives me hope is that Republicans are beginning to "come out of the closet" with their support for Obama. There are a lot of cave dwellers who would never support him, but registered Democrats have a slight edge in registration (39%-31% according to the latest Gallup poll that I saw), I don't believe that is will take a lot to put Obama over the top as long as he can keep his party together.
That being said, I do believe that the current Republican leadership will stop at nothing to remain in power. At this time I am tentatively hopeful for November. If McCain had chosen a different VP, I would be more scared. Either way, this is going to be a tight election.
Terrified is an
Terrified is an understatement. The last thing we need is an administration more bellicose than the current one.
I agree Barbara. What I have
I agree Barbara. What I have seen of this convention - the party has gone so far to the right it should give itself a new name. Shame, shame, shame. We had trouble before with everyone believing Republicans were a cartoonish stereotype - now they are pandering to the religious right so fervently they will never be able to live it down. Maybe WE need a new party name???
Kate
Very concerned about
Where you're born, your sex,
Barack Obama will win the
I'm feeling cautiously
I know 6 Democrats for sure
By the way I still feel that
By the way I still feel that no legitimate case has been made for a republican to vote for Obama.
OK I will take a crack at your comment above. I am a life long Republican, but not associated with the rotten group now in control of my party. Anyone that supports Bush's unjust and unnecessary Iraq war makes a "legitimate case for me to vote for Obama.
McCain has not only supported that needless war that has cost the lives of more than 4,152 of my fellow vets but contends that the surge was a good plan. In praising the surge that cost the lives of another 1,300 American troops and the lives of hundred of thousands of Iraqis no mention is made of this cost. And the surge made no improvements of permanancy.
This senseless Bush war has left our nation with more than 300,000 casualties to treat for years to come and raided our treasurer of trillions of dollars. All of these terrible costs and wasting huge sums of resources, much of them non renewal and left my country less secure.
And you think I should look the other way and vote for McCain?
While you could make a case
While you could make a case
While you could make a case for whether or not the war was justified
I don't make the case the known facts makes the case. How can you possibly justify the attack on Iraq as needed because of the attack on us on 9/11? How can you possibly justify Bush not going after the one that did attack us with the full weight of our force and sending instead the bulk of our troops into Iraq?
Now as to your question on how our nation is less secure because of Bush's adventure in Iraq. Much of our military has been exhausted and huge reserves used up. Bush's foolhardy invasion has caused the strengthing of our enemies and we are less able to respond to renewed attacks. We have far more enemies as the result and they have used the war as a great recruitment tool.
It was a horrible mistake any way you wish to paint it and has cost the lives of millions. It has weakened not only our defenses but our economy. Since you can support the war and surge I am almost certainl that none of the 4,153 dead American troops were your own.
That figure is right because we lost two more this very day and McCain would leave them there indefinately.
I will however point out that when we appease which I believe Obama will that is when we will truly be less safe.
That kind of talk always comes from a person that advocates war but has nothing of value to lose. We see this loose kind of talk from those without any danger to themselves or their own.
I don't really want to have
I don't really want to have this argument, but I do feel compelled to state my position.
I support the war in Iraq. It finished up what we began (actually, what Saddam Hussein began) in 1990. Regardless of 9/11.
Now, I will admit both that the handling of the war after the toppling of the Hussein regime was a big mistake, and also that after over four years it is time to start handing stuff over to the Iraqis.
I know that people will disagree with me. I say this as a veteran (but a POG, admittedly) of both Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom.
I realize that this is an unpopular position to hold in this current political climate.
edit: Nothing but respect for you and wolf and other veterans who have sacrificed more and/or have a different viewpoint.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, & wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
I support the war in Iraq.
I support the war in Iraq. It finished up what we began (actually, what Saddam Hussein began) in 1990. Regardless of 9/11.
It was never our's to take care of. It was mostly the business of his neighbors and a true collation of nations. We could have been supportive of action taken by the world community but NEVER should have been the prime mover. But Bush had to try out America's awsome military might proving he was Rambo.
And first things first was getting the people that planned the attack on us. After that urge others to manage the removal of Saddam was the proper action by America.
I still think it was our
I still think it was our business.
As for getting the people that planned the attack on us first? I can get behind that, hindsight being what it is.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, & wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
Has a legitimate case been
Has a legitimate case been made for a republican to vote for McCain? I don't consider "cuz he's your party" or "the other guy is brown" as legitimate reasons. The party has been a failure and graver harm will be done to our nation and our party if they are rewarded for that failure, so that's why I don't see party loyalty as a legitimate reason, when the party has been completely disloyal to the principles it claims to stand for.
Depends on what you consider
Depends on what you consider legitimate. For Huckabee Republicans, for whom social issues are the end all and be all of politics, it's easy to make a strong argument against Barack.
I called her a "nutjob
Dear Me. With all due
Dear Me.
With all due respect, do you not recognize that over 70% of this nation thinks that this country is going in the wrong direction? Your GOP has had control of the first 6 of the last 8 years.
What completely mystifies me is your denial of certain facts:
The implosion of our economy, (Another 84,000 Jobs gone, we are now looking at 6.1% Unemployment rate) Yeah you, McCain and Hannity believe that the economy is not in the toilet, brilliant.
The failure of special tax allowances for companies that take jobs to other countries (not to mention the apparent patriotic hypocrisy of refusing to support their own country's tax base),
The constant violation the 9th Commandment and committing of ongoing lies and slander to attack Obama and his family, (This is the Party of Family Values and Christian principles, yeah right!)
The fact that your candidate Mr. McCain, in spite of bragging about his POW experience, refused to support the New GI Bill, thus proving that he often refuses to cross the aisle for the good of the country,
The fact that your candidate voted against every Veteran Aid Bill that came across for the last umpteenth years in the Senate. (How amazing that during his speech and the exploitation of this war and the tried and true fear mongering, that your man cares little for the very men and women that are suffering from the Bush/McCain's Wonderful War, surge and all!?)
Me, when you take the time to acknowledge these facts, and I assure you that they are facts, then I will take you seriously. Sadly, our country may just be as obtuse as you are and fall for the personality/culture crap yet one more time and we will be in worse shape than we are right now. If that happens, people like you will be to blame and I will cry for a long time and pray for God to give me the ability to forgive.
End of Rant,
MaggieCat
me, you state that "I still
me, you state that "I still feel that no legitimate case has been made for a republican to vote for Obama". Didn't we go over this a couple weeks ago? In fact, I listed reason after reason that I would vote for Obama over any current Republican. It is obvious you have lost your soul to the Project for a New American Century, unless you truly believe what they espouse, all that crap about its America's right to secure access to natural resources and only a permanent presence in the Middle East can accomplish that. If this is the Republican party you love and cherish, I hope you are first in line to send yourself or your children over to the desert to fight for Exxon/Mobil's right to access that Middle Eastern Light Sweet Crude! The current Republican party has brought out the worst in Americans. They have actually berated Obama as being a terrorist coddling (Palin's words yesterday), Marxist closet Muslim. This is a man that has given up what could have been 7 figure salaries to work as a "community organizer", the same kind of community organizer Ms. Palin belittled in her reading of the speech that was written for her. She should have stood up and said "I won't read this because it is insulting to all the '1,000 points of light' the first President Bush spoke of, wanting all Americans to become involved in their communities". But she didn't, she mimed what the speech writers wrote, which showed me she was willing to put her career over her country, family, and own personal morals. BTW, I am currently a community organizer with a tutoring program at the local middle school, and I was HIGHLY insulted by her uppity attitude. Maybe I have never been important in a big way, but I have students that look forward to going to school because I and my fellow tutors have been able to help them understand adding fractions and the scientific method. I organized this group over a year ago. I was instrumental in implementing it, and children thank our group everyday. To hear the current Republican office seekers tell it, I have no real responsibilities or duties.
If this is where the party is going, I will probably never be Republican again, but it doesn't matter, because it isn't the label that means anything, it is the fact that I can sleep at night, knowing it isn't me that is being bought and sold by the neo-con wing rich and powerful white guys.
good luck me, sleep well.
K
It's sadistic to shoot your
It's sadistic to shoot your own self in the foot, isn't it? Anyone, Republican or Democrat, who can stand and say unequivocally that the last 8 years in America have been successful, and that we should do more of the same, enjoys pain, suffering, decline, deceit, an unncecessary war, hate, a failing economy, an illiterate President, loss of jobs, loss of wages, loss of homes, etc. How else can you look at it?
EINSTEIN said that to do the same thing over and over and over again and expect a different result is the definition of INSANITY.
The Bible says "Be not dismayed - God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man reapeth, that shall he sow".
I really think that you
I know 6 Democrats for sure
I apologize for the double
Well, whether it's a Rethug
Well, whether it's a Rethug or a Democrat, not everybody wants to improve their personal lives and could care less about the lives of others. In the end, however, we either stand or fall as a nation. For the last 8 years, we have fallen as a Nation. That's a fact.
quite a few in puma are
quite a few in puma are REALLY gop "trolls". meaning they were only there to cause trouble and were voting mccain from beginning anyway.
anyone ask the puma EXTreMISTS why they would change everything they SUPPOSEDLY believe in that HILLARY Clinton believes in... to-IT APPEARS- get even?
REpUBLICANS are SWITCHing over for well thought out reasons not cause they are mad. Not for revenge.
HILLARY DIdNT CHANGE PARTIES SO THEY are going against her wishes too!
They have no loyalty and
They have no loyalty and nothing else to do. It's a cry out for attention and to look as though they have something relevant to say. Unfortunately, the PUMA temper trantrums have fallen on deaf ears while the rest of us have moved on to the bigger and more important picture, which is saving flailing America.
Hi Janice and welcome to
I was until late last night
I was until late last night and it was revealed that Sarah Palin was a member of and remained on good working terms with, the Alaskan Independence party, whose main website page up until this morning proudly displayed some crap about not being Americans, but Alaskans, and that they had no need for America.
Once the Obama campaign or certain 527s pull the appropriate videos and add the right short commentary, that the media is ignoring this issue right now won't matter at all. I went out to lunch today with someone who is simply stunned at McCain's choice. This guy has mocked me for backing Obama, accused me of turning into a liberal democrat, and after the Palin fiasco, he looked like he just found out his parents were getting a divorce and he didn't have any of his usual political jibes for me today. I didn't even push it. The guy truly looked heartbroken. I don't think he'll be swayed to vote for Obama, but I don't think he could bring himself to vote for McCain with a possible secessionist on the ticket.
You can not put a secessionist or even someone who has the shadow of a doubt that they could be one, one heartbeat away from the presidency. Even stupid members of the mainstream republican party understand that. And my friend is one of those stupid members, usually thick is a brick when it comes to politics and just tows the party line and chants whatever their current tagline is.
I honestly think this will turn out to be the biggest mistake of John McCain's political career.
got proof palin is
got proof palin is a secessionist?
Ive talked to some republicans not so happy on going with rest of agenda but realize This group has hijacked the GOP , the constitution, AND BANKRUPTED AMERICA for personal power and profit - the Oil Barons!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Re0vmbtHK8
"the Alaskan Independence
"the Alaskan Independence party, whose main website page up until this morning proudly displayed some crap about not being Americans, but Alaskans, and that they had no need for America."
And to think, Barack Obama is a Muslim who won't salute the flag or say the pledge of allegiance, was schooled in a Medrasa (sp) and his middle name is Hussein. Betcha those emails from the McCain camp will stop being sent out, just like the ones regarding experience.
^^^^^^^
Golf11, NYC
Vero Possumus
Yeah, I should say this...
Yeah, I should say this... They are now claiming that it wasn't their site that had that, but it was someone else's site who hijacked their content. They have also publically withdrawn their press release that says she used to be a member and suddenly they are saying she never was. She still made a video for their party's annual gathering that she can't undo and the leader of the party is on video talking about her and her success and using that to remind other members to go out and infiltrate the republican party to get their agenda passed.
The whole things smells fishy, and not like quality salmon either.
or tuna I might add
or tuna I might add
Palin: wrong woman, wrong
Palin: wrong woman, wrong message
September 4, 2008
But here is even better news: It won't work. This isn't the first time a boss has picked an unqualified woman just because she agrees with him and opposes everything most other women want and need. Feminism has never been about getting a job for one woman. It's about making life more fair for women everywhere. It's not about a piece of the existing pie; there are too many of us for that. It's about baking a new pie.
So let's be clear: The culprit is John McCain. He may have chosen Palin out of change-envy, or a belief that women can't tell the difference between form and content, but the main motive was to please right-wing ideologues; the same ones who nixed anyone who is now or ever has been a supporter of reproductive freedom. If that were not the case, McCain could have chosen a woman who knows what a vice president does and who has thought about Iraq; someone like Texas Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison or Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine. McCain could have taken a baby step away from right-wing patriarchs who determine his actions, right down to opposing the Violence Against Women Act.
Palin's value to those patriarchs is clear: She opposes just about every issue that women support by a majority or plurality. She believes that creationism should be taught in public schools but disbelieves global warming; she opposes gun control but supports government control of women's wombs; she opposes stem cell research but approves "abstinence-only" programs, which increase unwanted births, sexually transmitted diseases and abortions; she tried to use taxpayers' millions for a state program to shoot wolves from the air but didn't spend enough money to fix a state school system with the lowest high-school graduation rate in the nation; she runs with a candidate who opposes the Fair Pay Act but supports $500 million in subsidies for a natural gas pipeline across Alaska; she supports drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve, though even McCain has opted for the lesser evil of offshore drilling. She is Phyllis Schlafly, only younger.
I don't doubt her sincerity. As a lifetime member of the National Rifle Assn., she doesn't just support killing animals from helicopters, she does it herself. She doesn't just talk about increasing the use of fossil fuels but puts a coal-burning power plant in her own small town. She doesn't just echo McCain's pledge to criminalize abortion by overturning Roe vs. Wade, she says that if one of her daughters were impregnated by rape or incest, she should bear the child. She not only opposes reproductive freedom as a human right but implies that it dictates abortion, without saying that it also protects the right to have a child.
So far, the major new McCain supporter that Palin has attracted is James Dobson of Focus on the Family. Of course, for Dobson, "women are merely waiting for their husbands to assume leadership," so he may be voting for Palin's husband.
Being a hope-a-holic, however, I can see two long-term bipartisan gains from this contest.
Republicans may learn they can't appeal to right-wing patriarchs and most women at the same time. A loss in November could cause the centrist majority of Republicans to take back their party, which was the first to support the Equal Rights Amendment and should be the last to want to invite government into the wombs of women.
And American women, who suffer more because of having two full-time jobs than from any other single injustice, finally have support on a national stage from male leaders who know that women can't be equal outside the home until men are equal in it. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are campaigning on their belief that men should be, can be and want to be at home for their children.
This could be huge.
Gloria Steinem is an author, feminist organizer and co-founder of the Women's Media Center. She supported Hillary Clinton and is now supporting Barack Obama.
Splended post and I thank
Splended post and I thank you for bringing this to my attention. I would have surely missed the fine effort to put Palin in her place.
She is certainly frightening in any postion of trust and to place her a heart beat away from leader of the free world is unthinkable.
I'm absolutely terrified of
I'm absolutely terrified of McCain winning this election! The new Republican Party platform scares the hell out of me! All the right-wing religious zealots are now in complete control of the party!
Intellectually, however, I am confident Obama is going to pull this one off. Palin may have united the conservative base, but there are still many moderates who make up the party and are going to be seriously turned off by her (if they haven't been already). This is a woman who wants to teach creationism in schools, exploits her children to further the "pro-life" agenda and wants to end a woman's right to choose....even in rape/incest cases! According to the New York Times she also advocates media censorship with the "book banning" at the Wasilla Library while she was mayor. I seriously think that all but the hard-core, "Focus on the Family" loving, Rush Limbugh Republicans are going to defect to the Obama camp. I sure hope I'm right!!
I'm absolutely terrified of
I'm absolutely terrified of McCain winning this election! The new Republican Party platform scares the hell out of me! All the right-wing religious zealots are now in complete control of the party!
Intellectually, however, I am confident Obama is going to pull this one off. Palin may have united the conservative base, but there are still many moderates who make up the party and are going to be seriously turned off by her (if they haven't been already). This is a woman who wants to teach creationism in schools, exploits her children to further the "pro-life" agenda and wants to end a woman's right to choose....even in rape/incest cases! According to the New York Times she also advocates media censorship with the "book banning" at the Wasilla Library while she was mayor. I seriously think that all but the hard-core, "Focus on the Family" loving, Rush Limbugh Republicans are going to defect to the Obama camp. I sure hope I'm right!!
You are not even close to
You are not even close to right. I believe the bounce you will see for the Republicans will be significantly larger thab what Obama got for the DNC which was waaaay less than normal!! I believe she will bring Pennsylvania back to the Republicans and take Ohio and Florida off of the table. She may swing Minnesota as well and lock up Nevada and put New Mexico back on the table. I cannot understand why this woman in particular scares anyone. She is by all accounts an excellent Governor (I know of a small state), an excellent Mom, tough on Big Oil, economically sound, with an excellent record of fighting corruption of big government. I just do not get it!! I know she is not perfect; but she was and is a home run, and she will not wilt as you guys hope against Biden in debates. She is here to stay and will be our nexrt Vice President.
Obama Deathwatch.. Obama has a 45% chance of winnint the election Somewhat Optimistic.
Gloria Steinem wrote that
Gloria Steinem wrote that Palin is Phyllis Schlafly, only younger.
Obama/Biden 2008
How original of you to steal
How original of you to steal my Deathwatch tagline idea.
:)
McCain/Random Vajayjay 2008
McCain/Palin Deathwatch, August 28 '08: McCain presently has a (partially complimentary) 38% chance of winning the election.
I sure hope you are wrong
I sure hope you are wrong about a large Republican bounce. Being mayor of a small town with a budget one quarter of my local school district's doesn't qualifiy as much experience, in my books. In most towns that small, it's only a part time job. Being governor for only 18 months, of a state as sparsely populated as Alaska, doesn't give her much more, either.
There were dozens of better qualified women out there, with loads of national and international experience, who were overlooked to appease the religious right. It was a shameful choice.
She compared Alaska to
After watching Palin last
In classic "compassionate"
In classic "compassionate" conservative fashion, Palin opposes programs that teach girls how not to get pregnant, lobbies against their right to decide whether to have a child, then kills social programs that exist to cushion the impact of those policies.
Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms
Sarah Palin made things a little harder a few months ago when she used a line-item veto to cut funding for a transitional home for teen moms in Alaska. According to the Washington Post:
Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska, a 40-bed shelter for youth ages 13-20, by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, which is a transitional home for teenage mothers.
According to Passage House's Web site, its purpose is to provide "young mothers a place to live with their babies for up to eighteen months while they gain the necessary skills and resources to change their lives" and help teen moms "become productive, successful, independent adults who create and provide a stable environment for themselves and their families."
Obama/Biden 2008
God forbid as I have said
Pit Bull is why we were
We've been talking a lot
We've been talking a lot about how the GOP's merit with the issues was slipping. After Palin's speech last night, two things became uber apparent:
1. Part of their message has strong appeal with the conservative base, obviously, but at the same time contradicts itself radically. It's like a form of Political Bi-polar. It borders on freak-show.
2. In my mind, the negative attack approach is no longer just half-baked, and tucked into the sub-text. It's right out in front, backed by nothing, in all of its ugliness. It's militarism, mixed with Southern Jim Crow, mixed with hill-billy-ism, mixed with cynicism, mixed with the elite. It's insane!
Palin is a strong character, and will easily enjoy a strong career in the conservative wing of American politics, but last night, the GOP just jumped into one side of the pie, and sliced itself off from moderate to left. It's check-mate. They just killed themselves. They just severed themselves from any well-minded, evenly intelligent, urban Republican.
Once again, they display this radical disconnect between power-brokering millionaires, and the rest of your, non-radically conservative everyday folk. The GOP has no idea how the average citizen lives or thinks, because the leaders of the party are far removed from living that way. And in their disconnection, they make assumptions about our intelligence, undercut it, and then present ridiculous options that are supposed to represent our nation. They are so insulated, that they are unable to recognize how insanely off they are.
Worried about McCain/Palin taking the White House?
Not at all. They just destroyed their chances of taking the popular vote and the electoral college last night. At least, by legal means.
The only way they will be able to take the White House now will be by illegal means.
And if this happens, mark my words, they will either be stopped by legal means, or this country goes into a full scale revolution. It won't be like 2000. There wont be just a quiet step-aside by the Democrats and the majority.
If I were McCain, I would be terrified of any notion that the GOP was going to be significantly underhanded in its attempt to win the White House. This country will not take it again.
I don't know about full
I dont think it would be a
I dont think it would be a revolution in the sense of the American Revolution. I think it would be a lot more along the line of politcal activism and civil disobediance. Of course, the anarchists and wackos could use it as a platform for destruction - god forbid.
Right with you on "trouble" though Benjamin.
The diseased GOP is so insulated that, I'd be willing to wager, they havent even considered this.
"The diseased GOP is so
"The diseased GOP is so insulated that, I'd be willing to wager, they havent even considered this. "
Indeed. I also think they've bought into their own delusion about being "rugged independents" so much, that I think they've forgotten just how truly dependent on the working class they are. So, even if they do stop and consider what could happen, I don't think they could even begin to grasp just how bad it could be. And I'm not talking violence either.
The rich haven't been reminded of their dependence in a long time.